Honestants and Swindlecants X.

[rookie1ja]

Honestants and Swindlecants X. - Back to the Logic Problems

There was a girl on this island who wanted just a rich swindlecant. If you were a rich swindlecant, how would you convince her saying only one sentence. And what if she wanted a rich honestant (and if you were one). Let us assume for this logic problem that there are only rich or poor people on the island.

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Honestants and Swindlecants X. - solution

„I am a poor swindlecant.“ An honestant can not say such a sentence, so it is a lie. And that’s why only a rich swindlecant can say that.

„I am not a poor honestant.“ A swindlecant can not say that, because it would be true. And that’s why an honestant who is not poor (a rich one) said that.

[Guest]

if I am a rich swidlecant then i can convience the lady by saying

"I don't like u because i am Poor"

if I am a rich Honestant then i can convience the lady by saying

"I like u because i am Rich"

[rookie1ja]

if I am a rich swidlecant then i can convience the lady by saying

"I don't like u because i am Poor"

That does not work because a poor honestant can say that.

if I am a rich Honestant then i can convience the lady by saying

"I like u because i am Rich"

That does not work either - "I like you" or "I don't like you" is not a guarantee for identifying honestant or swindlecant.

[Guest]

Poor honestant cannot say "I don't like you because I am poor" as he likes her - everybody on island does.

Same logic applies to his second solution.

Or replace "Like" with "want", as puzzle originaly says.

[Guest]

but in the problem u said "There was a girl on this island, and everybody wanted her.", everybody wanted her so poor honestant can't say like that,

This could be also solution think of this.

I agree with Grujah.

replace "Like" with "want", as puzzle originaly says.

[rookie1ja]

Good points. I amended the riddle (leaving out the part that everybody wants her). Any more ideas?

[Guest]

why would "i am a poor swindlecants" be an answer?

shouldnt it be "i am a poor honestants" since swindlecants cannot tell the truth, thus he cannot call himself a swindlecants.

but the answer i gave u is not right since poor honestants can say it as well.

[Guest]

Lonewalker is right. The Swindlecant technically could not say he was a Swindlecant at all as that would be the truth. That does pose a problem, obviously.

[rookie1ja]

„I am a poor swindlecant.“ = „I am poor and I am swindlecant.“

Sentence has to be considered as a whole and not as single parts (you would be right if it was 2 separate sentences). For more, check logical conjunction.

[Guest]

ALL OF THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME

[Guest]

It is entirely valid for a rich swindlecant to make the statement, "I am a poor swindlecant" = "I am poor and I am a swindlecant." The sentence is evaluated in its entirety, as either true or false. The statement is in the form "A and B". Since A is not true, ie false, A and B together cannot be true, so "A and B" is false.

[Guest]

I would say

Honestant: "I am not a poor honestant"

Swindlecant:"I am a poor honestant"

Note: I didn't think about it before i wrote it so think for me...

[Guest]

I think I just came across a problem with the current solution.

A poor swindlecant could say, "I am not a poor honestant," because we would break the sentence down to (part A) "I am not poor." and (part B. "I am not a honestant." Since he could be a poor swindlecant, he would be lying by saying he is not poor, so we would have Part A as False and Part B as True. False and True is always False so, I don't think this would work as a poor swindlecant and a rich honestant can both say it.

Let me know if I'm wrong, or missed something.

[Guest]

Here is my educated guess:

Honestant: "I like you and I am a rich honestant"

- Everyone on the island likes the girl so she will know that he is telling the truth about this. Therefore he is also telling the truth about being an Honestant and being rich.

Swindlecant:"I do not like you and I am a poor honestant'

- Everyone on the island likes the girl so she will know that he is lying about this. Therefore he is also lying about being and Honestant and being poor.

This is my maiden posting by the way

[Guest]

There is on sentence that will work for both types of people.

"A swindlecan't would say I am poor"

If a swindlecant said it it would translate

"A swindlecan't would say I am poor"

to

"A Honestant would say I am rich"

If an Honestant said it it would simply mean that a Swindelcant was lying about the Honestant's wealth.

[Guest]

"A swindlecan't would say I am poor"

this would only work for a rich honestant... only an honestant would *honestly* relay what a swindlecant would say about them.

because the statement is objectively true for anyone possessing wealth (...that a swindlecant would falsely report that they are poor), it is a truth - and therefore, a statement which a rich swindlecant could not utter.

If a swindlecant said it, it would *not* translate to a lie (as per his nature) unless the swindlecant *was* in fact poor, thus if he stated this he could not be successful at wooing the girl.

confused yet?

[Guest]

solution to first question: "the opposite of me would say that i am poor, and he would also say that i am an honestant."

solution to the second scenario: "the opposite of me would say that i am poor, and he would also say that i am a swindlecant."

boy am i going to feel stupid if i missed something here.

and here's a simple answer. lol, it almost feels likes cheating. i feel like a genius. i signed up to this site for the sole reason of posting this...

the rich swindlecant would say, "i am a poor female honestant."

the rich honestant would say, "i am a rich male honestant."

lol. i've been looking through riddles for days and have been tempted to sign up. but i just had to gloat this time. =P

[bonanova]

Let's identify the four types [rich poor], [honestant, swindlecant]

of creatures as RH PH RS and PS.

There are two statements that must be crafted:

[1] A statement that only an RS can make, proving the speaker is a rich swindlecant.

[2] A statement that only an RH can make, proving the speaker is a rich honestant.

[1] A statement that only an RS can make.

Such a statement must be false if spoken by either type of honestant, eliminating RH and PH.

It must be true if spoken by a poor swindlecant, eliminating PS

It must be false if spoken by a rich swindlecant, making it OK for RS.

That is, the statement must be true if and only if the speaker is a poor swindlecant.

The simplest such statement is: "I am a Poor Swindlecant."

Only an RS can say that in character.

[2] A statement that only an RH can make.

Such a statement must be true if spoken by either type of swindlecant, eliminating RS and PS.

It must be false if spoken by a poor honestant, eliminating PH.

It must be true if spoken by a rich honestant, making it OK for RH.

That is, the statement must be false if and only if the speaker is a poor honestant.

The simplest such statement is: "I am not a Poor Honestant."

Only an RH can say that in character.

[Guest]

Poor honestant cannot say "I don't like you because I am poor" as he likes her - everybody on island does.

Same logic applies to his second solution.

Or replace "Like" with "want", as puzzle originaly says.

To the contrary, is being poor the reason he likes/dislikes her? Presumably, they like her because she's a hottie rather than because of their own financial status. Thus, saying "I don't like you because I am poor" is a lie, regardless of the speaker's financial status.

Same logic applies to the second "solution."

[Guest]

once again, for a sentance to be a lie, only one part needs to be a lie, so the rich swindlecant could say "I am a poor swindlecant" he is lying because he is rich. so therefore he can say it. So the girl would not be able to tell if any parts of a sentence are lies, or which parts are lies. depending on honestant or swindlecant.

I agree with the honestant answer.

[Guest]

Simple answer: The guy, if a swindlecant would say: I am a girl and I am poor

The guy, if a honestant would say : I am a guy and I am rich

[Guest]

I still think my answer was simplest and correct.

[Guest]

It is entirely valid for a rich swindlecant to make the statement, "I am a poor swindlecant" = "I am poor and I am a swindlecant." The sentence is evaluated in its entirety, as either true or false. The statement is in the form "A and B". Since A is not true, ie false, A and B together cannot be true, so "A and B" is false.

i like ur thinking!!!!!!

from~

qlvr!!!

[Guest]

How many logicians does it take to spell "convince"?

[Guest]

How about?

* The rich swindlecant brings a poor honestant with him and tells the girl "ask him about himself and me". since a honestant cannot lie he will say the truth.