[Guest]

This is my first attempt at creating a puzzle, so bare with me. I believe there is only one solution though there is a chance I may have missed an alternative solution. However, you can rest assured that this problem is original, and in no where did I look up or alter a similar puzzle. Sorry, if it involves a lengthy read, I know I despise such things.

COPS AND ROBBERS:

A very physically fit, new cadet just left the police station at 11:10 pm; moving straight along the freeway excited about his first field work assignment. It may have just been trafficking work, but it was a nice start to his promising career. Later that night, the cadet came crashing through the front door demanding to the see the commander immediately. He began to tell his story:

He arrived at the site and noticed that there were only two houses in the neighborhood and no sign of any other life insight. The cadet then proceeded to go outside of his car and walked directly into the woods. On his return he noticed two people in one of the houses and only saw a single person in the other one. Then he looked over in shock as his squad car was missing, after not even five minutes had passed since he arrived on scene. He then had to run back to the station, and further explained that he knew it was one of the people in the house; seeing that they were the only ones around.

The commander immediately dialed the numbers of the houses, and after several complaints about waking them up at quarter after twelve, they soon arrived at the station. They all claimed to have seen the cop pull up, and that they were the only ones around, however their stories varied from one person to the next. Due to the immense stress of being accused of such a crime they immediately began to blame each other, so they were tested using a lie detector...The officer asked three questions: Who did it? What time was it done? and Who were you with at that time?...however, the lie detector only reported that they each said one truth, and two lies, yet did not determine which was the truth.

After seeing the results, the commander pondered for a moment then knew exactly who had taken the cadet's car.

Using the results, determine how the commander was able to figure out whom the thief was.

These are the results:

JON:

BILL stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:30

I was with KIRA

BILL:

Either JON or DAN stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:20

I was with DAN

KIRA:

DAN stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:30

I was with BILL

DAN:

BILL stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:20

I was with JON

[Guest]

If there were two people in one house and only one person in the other house, who is the 4th person being questioned and where did he/she come from????

[andromeda]

JON:

BILL stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:30

I was with KIRA

BILL:

Either JON or DAN stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:20

I was with DAN

KIRA:

DAN stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:30

I was with BILL

DAN:

BILL stole the car

The car was reported stolen at 11:20

I was with JON

Well

the cop probably made a phone call from one of the houses I think at 11:20 so since Bill and Dan said that was the time when the car was reported stolen I guess that they were together in the same house. However I still don't know who was in the other house and who is missing!

[Prime]

KIRA stole the car at 11:30.

JON, BILL, and DAN were all together at the time witnessing the crime from the window.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Prime

[andromeda]

Well

the cop probably made a phone call from one of the houses I think at 11:20 so since Bill and Dan said that was the time when the car was reported stolen I guess that they were together in the same house. However I still don't know who was in the other house and who is missing!

Hm...

I made a mistake I thought that he was at the scene at 11:10pm, but that was the time he left the station so it's other way around Jon and Kira were together in the same house!!

<_<

[Guest]

If there were two people in one house and only one person in the other house, who is the 4th person being questioned and where did he/she come from????

Those are the ppl he saw in the houses from outside. There could still be more. So the 4th person may have been in either house...yet if the cop had just returned from the woods the fourth person could not have been in one of the houses, upon the cop's return. They would have to be stashing the car somewhere.

Edited November 3, 2008 by RyanJ

[Guest]

KIRA stole the car at 11:30.

JON, BILL, and DAN were all together at the time witnessing the crime from the window.

good, but you're missing one key aspect of the puzzle. Though you are very close.

[Guest]

Those are the ppl he saw in the houses from outside. There could still be more. So the 4th person may have been in either house...yet if the cop had just returned from the woods the fourth person could not have been in one of the houses, upon the cop's return. They would have to be stashing the car somewhere.

for simplicities stake, ignore the 2nd half of my statement. It makes it harder and misleading. It should read:

Those are the ppl he saw in the houses from outside. There could still be more. So the 4th person may have been in either house.

Edited November 3, 2008 by RyanJ

[Guest]

I don't get it. If the cadet left at 10:05 how could it have been stolen 5 minutes after he arrived? Maybe it took him some time to get there? I'm just not sure. Just been bugging me.

Edited November 3, 2008 by miraculous

[Guest]

Oh, oops already solved.... never mind.

[Guest]

I don't get it. If the cadet left at 10:05 how could it have been stolen 5 minutes after he arrived? Maybe it took him some time to get there? I'm just not sure. Just been bugging me.

the cadet left the police station at 11:10. and no more than 5 minutes after he arrived at his destination his car was stolen

[Guest]

Oh, oops already solved.... never mind.

the puzzle has yet to be correctly solved.

[Guest]

No one can solve it?...Fine time for a hint: There is only one solution to the logical puzzle, but think of the implications that solution would have.

[Guest]

The truths are as follows:

JON--I was with Kira

BILL--Either Jon or Dan stole the car

KIRA--Dan stole the car

DAN--The car was reported stolen at 1120

This means that Jon and Kira were together. Kira saw Dan steal the car while Jon was probably on the john or something. Bill saw a man steal it, but couldn't tell if it was Jon or Dan. Dan, hoping to cover his tracks, reported the car stolen.

[Guest]

The truths are as follows:

JON--I was with Kira

BILL--Either Jon or Dan stole the car

KIRA--Dan stole the car

DAN--The car was reported stolen at 1120

This means that Jon and Kira were together. Kira saw Dan steal the car while Jon was probably on the john or something. Bill saw a man steal it, but couldn't tell if it was Jon or Dan. Dan, hoping to cover his tracks, reported the car stolen.

So then if the car was stolen at 11:20, Bill told two truths. Because he also told the truth about what time it was stolen. Good effort though.

[Guest]

Alright no one is really trying anymore, I guess I made it a little too hard. So let me give one last hint by saying Prime's solution is completely correct, except for his conclusion that Kira did it. Think of the implications of that solution, it will not imply that kira did it. Namely, think of time and distance.

Way too big of a hint, but I guess no one can solve it so there ya go.

[Guest]

Damn--I was looking for at least one truth and forgot that the other 2 had to be lies...very good riddle!

[Guest]

Probably way off, but....

Jon stole it because it was stolen at 11:30. Jon's truth was that it was stolen at 11:30 and lied about Bill stealing it and about being with Kira.

Bill's truth was that either Jon or Dan stole the car, but lied that it was stolen at 11:20 and that he was with Dan.

Kira's truth was that it was stolen at 11:30 and lied that Dan stole it and that she was with Bill.

Finally Dan's truth was that he was with Jon, but lied that the car was stolen at 11:20 and that Bill stole it.

SO - When the officer arrived in the neighborhood at 11:25, Jon and Dan were together (hence Dan's truth that he was with Jon at 11:20...that's just not when the car was stolen), Kira and Bill were both alone. When the cadet returned from the woods at 11:30, Kira was in her house alone and Bill and Dan were in the other house (hence Bill's lie that he was with Dan at 11:20 - also a lie about when the car was stolen). And Jon left Dan at 11:25 to go steal the car.

Am I close???

[Guest]

ok I'll ease it up a bit more. Prime's solution, the following solution, is correct. BUT KIRA DID NOT STEAL THE CAR, who did?

JON:

BILL stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:30 -TRUTH

I was with KIRA -LIE

BILL:

Either JON or DAN stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:20 -LIE

I was with DAN -TRUTH

KIRA:

DAN stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:30 -TRUTH

I was with BILL -LIE

DAN:

BILL stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:20 -LIE

I was with JON -TRUTH

[Guest]

ok I'll ease it up a bit more. Prime's solution, the following solution, is correct. BUT KIRA DID NOT STEAL THE CAR, who did?

JON:

BILL stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:30 -TRUTH

I was with KIRA -LIE

BILL:

Either JON or DAN stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:20 -LIE

I was with DAN -TRUTH

KIRA:

DAN stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:30 -TRUTH

I was with BILL -LIE

DAN:

BILL stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:20 -LIE

I was with JON -TRUTH

Jon because Bill lied that it was either Jon or Dan, but told the truth that he was with Dan. It's also been established through other lies that Bill did not steal the car, so Dan couldn't have stolen the car. Has to be Jon.

[Guest]

Jon because Bill lied that it was either Jon or Dan, but told the truth that he was with Dan. It's also been established through other lies that Bill did not steal the car, so Dan couldn't have stolen the car. Has to be Jon.

if that were true, then the statement either jon or dan stole the car would have to be true. Allow me to highlight the key pieces of information in the paragraph.

COPS AND ROBBERS:

A very physically fit, new cadet just left the police station at 11:10 pm; moving straight along the freeway excited about his first field work assignment. It may have just been trafficking work, but it was a nice start to his promising career. Later that night, the cadet came crashing through the front door demanding to the see the commander immediately. He began to tell his story:

He arrived at the site and noticed that there were only two houses in the neighborhood and no sign of any other life insight. The cadet then proceeded to go outside of his car and walked directly into the woods. On his return he noticed two people in one of the houses and only saw a single person in the other one. Then he looked over in shock as his squad car was missing, after not even five minutes had passed since he arrived on scene. He then had to run back to the station, and further explained that he knew it was one of the people in the house; seeing that they were the only ones around.

The commander immediately dialed the numbers of the houses, and after several complaints about waking them up at quarter after twelve, they soon arrived at the station. They all claimed to have seen the cop pull up, and that they were the only ones around, however their stories varied from one person to the next. Due to the immense stress of being accused of such a crime they immediately began to blame each other, so they were tested using a lie detector...The officer asked three questions: Who did it? What time was it done? and Who were you with at that time?...however, the lie detector only reported that they each said one truth, and two lies, yet did not determine which was the truth.

Lastly the crime was reported at 12:30, by deduction of the logic puzzle.

[Prime]

ok I'll ease it up a bit more. Prime's solution, the following solution, is correct. BUT KIRA DID NOT STEAL THE CAR, who did?

JON:

BILL stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:30 -TRUTH

I was with KIRA -LIE

BILL:

Either JON or DAN stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:20 -LIE

I was with DAN -TRUTH

KIRA:

DAN stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:30 -TRUTH

I was with BILL -LIE

DAN:

BILL stole the car -LIE

The car was reported stolen at 11:20 -LIE

I was with JON -TRUTH

So I had the same result with respect to true statements. Relying on the condition that it "had to be one of those 4", by elimination KIRA is the only possibility. Of course, Cadet getting there in 15 min by car along freeway and back by foot in 45 min is a bit strange, but not impossible. I don't see how cadet's name could be KIRA. Also "car reported stolen" is a bit ambiguous. It was cadet who actually "reported" it stolen and that took place sometime around 12:15.

Another questionable thing is that BILL was with DAN and DAN was with JON, meaning all three of them were together, whereas cadet saw only 2 people in the window of one of the houses.

[Guest]

Alright, here is the solution. The cadet is the one who had said it was one of those four through his story. If the crime took place at 11:30 and the cadet left at 11:10, going straight along the freeway. He would have arrived, at best, at 11:25, due to the five minutes he was there before the accident. To be generous let us say the freeway avg speed is 50 mph. 50 * 15/60 = how many miles away he was...at least 12.5 miles. He then had 45 minutes to return to the station, which would mean he would need to avg. a speed of 16 2/3 mph for that 45 minutes, which is impossible. As the world record for a 10 mile run is just shy of 45 minutes. This is how the commander knew that the cadet was full of it, and his story did not add up. It was not one of the four the cadet had accused, yet it was the cadet himself who was an idiot jock. Though, I understand as he clearly has no motive for doing so; unless he hated those four people.

Any suggestions or ideas on why that does not make sense, feel free to send and I will respond to, and keep in mind, if I feel like making another puzzle. Though, I like to make them hard, and am a little disappointed no one solved this, despite the hints.

[Guest]

Alright, here is the solution. The cadet is the one who had said it was one of those four through his story. If the crime took place at 11:30 and the cadet left at 11:10, going straight along the freeway. He would have arrived, at best, at 11:25, due to the five minutes he was there before the accident. To be generous let us say the freeway avg speed is 50 mph. 50 * 15/60 = how many miles away he was...at least 12.5 miles. He then had 45 minutes to return to the station, which would mean he would need to avg. a speed of 16 2/3 mph for that 45 minutes, which is impossible. As the world record for a 10 mile run is just shy of 45 minutes. This is how the commander knew that the cadet was full of it, and his story did not add up. It was not one of the four the cadet had accused, yet it was the cadet himself who was an idiot jock. Though, I understand as he clearly has no motive for doing so; unless he hated those four people.

Any suggestions or ideas on why that does not make sense, feel free to send and I will respond to, and keep in mind, if I feel like making another puzzle. Though, I like to make them hard, and am a little disappointed no one solved this, despite the hints.

Oh, and yes I did mess up, by typing "the car was REPORTED stolen at..." It should have just stated that "the car was stolen at..." So I apologize if that led you astray; then that is my fault, sorry.

[Prime]

Oh, and yes I did mess up, by typing "the car was REPORTED stolen at..." It should have just stated that "the car was stolen at..." So I apologize if that led you astray; then that is my fault, sorry.

It is a good puzzle (sortie). As usually the case, with the initial design, there are some details that need additional work.

I think the puzzle would make more sense if KIRA was the perpetrator of crime.

Cadet’s apparent lying is not a proof that he/she stole the car. More importantly, there is nothing definite in the statement of the puzzle to exclude KIRA. So, if he/she could be the one, why is it an incorrect solution? And there is nothing that could lead to a conclusion that cadet’s name is KIRA. The only statement in the puzzle that allowed implicating KIRA was cadet’s own assertion that it was one of the people in the houses, which I accepted as a necessary condition. Otherwise, it could have been someone not even mentioned in the puzzle. The fourth person appeared out of nowhere, and I can’t tell whether one of the interrogated suspects was cadet him/herself.

So to sum up:

If it was not KIRA, there must be something in the statement, that would contradict such conclusion.

For it to be a cadet, there must be something in the statement that would force such conclusion. (His lying to superintendent and taking a shortcut to the station are not reasons enough.)

[Guest]

It is a good puzzle (sortie). As usually the case, with the initial design, there are some details that need additional work.

I think the puzzle would make more sense if KIRA was the perpetrator of crime.

Cadet’s apparent lying is not a proof that he/she stole the car. More importantly, there is nothing definite in the statement of the puzzle to exclude KIRA. So, if he/she could be the one, why is it an incorrect solution? And there is nothing that could lead to a conclusion that cadet’s name is KIRA. The only statement in the puzzle that allowed implicating KIRA was cadet’s own assertion that it was one of the people in the houses, which I accepted as a necessary condition. Otherwise, it could have been someone not even mentioned in the puzzle. The fourth person appeared out of nowhere, and I can’t tell whether one of the interrogated suspects was cadet him/herself.

So to sum up:

If it was not KIRA, there must be something in the statement, that would contradict such conclusion.

For it to be a cadet, there must be something in the statement that would force such conclusion. (His lying to superintendent and taking a shortcut to the station are not reasons enough.)

I would suggest that if the information given in the puzzle is 100% accurate, save the cadet's story; then the cadet could have never made it to the spot he was allegedly at, and ran back to the station in time. I do concede that the cadet's name could have been Kira, yet besides that hole, I do not believe there is anyway that the cadet could have arrived on scene and ran back to the station. The logic puzzle, does allow for kira to be the criminal, (assuming she is not the cadet) she still could not have done it due to the timeline of the puzzle.

Also, the characters do not magically appear, the cadet merely looked into the houses and saw three people, this does not eliminate the possibility of another individual not being able to be seen from the window. Though I should have changed the responses to be structured as:

A stole the car

I saw the car drive away at XX:XX

At the time of the theft, I was with B

something of that nature would alleviate much of the confusion.

Thanks, for the input, though I do not think I will put another puzzle like this up on the site. Participation is pretty low, and I usually make my puzzles very difficult. But I suppose one could argue, that due to the problems I pointed out, that there could be several solutions or a possible no solution, yet no one pointed them out, so I would consider it a null point with respect to this post.