[Guest]

After reading though some of the other discussions and debates, ie. Religious debate, War Club sign up, and Athiest discussion, I feel that the concept of theism is misrepressented on this site.

I would like a thread were people can ask questions and talk about theism, and calmly explain why they believe the way they do.

Its a gross misinterpetation that religous people are ignorant and that they dont believe in science and reasoning.

Anyone can post, but in this thread but I would like to keep to the assumption that there is a god, regardless of who you think he/she/it is. The purpose of this is not to argue over the existence of something that can neither be proven nor disproven. Otherwise it will just turn into the religous debate part 2, and I dont think anyone wants that.

And we will define religion as a belief system, not neccissarily organized.

[Guest]

I probably would've picked Buddhism

I'm curious about people (such as PG)'s tolerance of other religions. Do you think Allah is another 'interpretation' of your own god? What about Buddha? How do you know your god isn't actually Buddha? etc

I think he is. Judism, Christianity, and Islam all have the same god, they just differ on what they think he did.

Islam teaches that christ was another profit of Allah, just like Moses and Abraham, but that Christians perverted his teachings. They also say he was never Crucified (its in the Quaran).

[Guest]

Not to make this a debate, but:

He was probably looking at something called the Illusion of Design. It looks designed cuz it was designed by natural processes.

Nice thought, but Scott understood dang near everything there is to understand about design and natural process. As an undergrad several of his professors took him aside to ask if he would be willing to do research with them because his knowledge had already surpassed theirs. He did not just come to decide that "perhaps God exists after all"...he turned his life over to Jesus and became a Christian leader in his community.

Quite a few, actually. Ever hear of guys like... Einstein? He was that guy with the crazy hair. Oh and Stephen Hawking. Made a coupla theories, nothing big

Sure. I was actually addressing you and your buddies on the Athiest thread. Like you said, I don't know you, but I do know Scott and I know that scientists all over the world revere his as one of the most brilliant men of this age; I am venturing to guess that you may not yet have had the oportunity to study the sciences as indepth as he has.

And about evolution. Of course it exists! Just not to the scale that we are led to believe in our 9th grade Biology text books (which were written by Scott's father most likely. Truly, that's what he actually does for a living - write Biology text books!)

[Guest]

sooooooooo.... your like everything?

Nah iI've got my own religion, Imperviosity.

On a serious note, again, no. I just choose to believe that there is a higher power, a creator if you will. But I do not like to be confined to believe that one way is the only real way.

[Guest]

Nah iI've got my own religion, Imperviosity.

On a serious note, again, no. I just choose to believe that there is a higher power, a creator if you will. But I do not like to be confined to believe that one way is the only real way.

gotcha... kinda... not really! but i am trying

[Guest]

gotcha... kinda... not really! but i am trying

What don't you get? Just ask and I shall enlighten you.

[Guest]

I think he is. Judism, Christianity, and Islam all have the same god, they just differ on what they think he did.

Islam teaches that christ was another profit of Allah, just like Moses and Abraham, but that Christians perverted his teachings. They also say he was never Crucified (its in the Quaran).

This is my understanding as well. Buddah is a whole different matter however, seeing as he was just a man. As far as I know (and feel free to correct me) the Buddah never claimed to be God. In fact it was his followers that deemed him as a god and developed the whole idea of reincarnation into the Dalai Lama.

[unreality]

Hmm. So the Buddhists are wrong?

[Guest]

Hmm. So the Buddhists are wrong?

They don't believe in God or heaven...just reincarnation. So yes, if they do not believe in God but their belief system is based soley on the teachings of man who later died, was buried and stayed buried, then I think that Buddism does not acknowledge the God I believe in.

[Guest]

This is my understanding as well. Buddah is a whole different matter however, seeing as he was just a man. As far as I know (and feel free to correct me) the Buddah never claimed to be God. In fact it was his followers that deemed him as a god and developed the whole idea of reincarnation into the Dalai Lama.

Yup, personally I respect Buddha. A man with so many followers, and held in the highest regard, yet he didn't succumb to the temptation to present himself as greater than he was.

[Guest]

Yup, personally I respect Buddha. A man with so many followers, and held in the highest regard, yet he didn't succumb to the temptation to present himself as greater than he was.

agreed. he had some excellent ideas and philosophies, no doubt about it.

UR - Just in case you're interested (since I can see you asking...) being a Christian doesn't mean that I find all other religions void of positive teaching. Heck, I don't even find you completely void of insight and thoughfulness. But I also don't buy into everything you say...I weigh the information I take in - regardless of the source (Buddah or Unreality) - against what I know to be the truth, which is the Word of God given in the Bible.

[Guest]

What don't you get? Just ask and I shall enlighten you.

Be very careful of asking for enlightenment from a man who readily admits that he dwells in the depths of Hell (aka Palmdale, CA.) <_<

[Guest]

UR - Just in case you're interested (since I can see you asking...) being a Christian doesn't mean that I find all other religions void of positive teaching. Heck, I don't even find you completely void of insight and thoughfulness. But I also don't buy into everything you say...I weigh the information I take in - regardless of the source (Buddah or Unreality) - against what I know to be the truth, which is the Word of God given in the Bible.

Hmm a woman of intelligence, rare thing these days.

Here's a question for every one:

What do you think would happen if the concept of old mythology (greek/roman, egyptian, norse) resurfaced into full-fledged religions again?

[Guest]

Be very careful of asking for enlightenment from a man who readily admits that he dwells in the depths of Hell (aka Palmdale, CA.) <_<

Hey now, I didn't choose to live there. In fact I only spend the weekends there.

[Guest]

Hey now, I didn't choose to live there. In fact I only spend the weekends there.

I know that, Silly! Because you spend your weekdays here with me while my husband's at work.

Edit: spelling

Edited September 9, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[Guest]

I know that, Silly! Because you spend your weekdays here with me while my husband's at work.

Edit: spelling

Shhhhh! that was supposed to be a secret

Edit: somehow my response ended up in PGs quote ....

Edited September 9, 2008 by Impervious

[Guest]

I practice both Christianity and the art of flirting. I have come to be well versed in both.

Anyhow back to the discussion...

How do you (thiests) believe you faith affects the way you view life?

(UR, I am interested in your thoughts as well, just not in this thread.)

"One time I trusted a stranger

'cause I heard his sweet song

And it was gently enticing me

though there was something wrong

When I turned he was gone

Blinding me his song remains reminding me

he's a bandit and a heartbreaker

Oh but Jesus was a crossmaker!"

Edited September 9, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[Guest]

I practice both Christianity and the art of flirting. I have come to be well versed in both.

Anyhow back to the discussion...

How do you (thiests) believe you faith affects the way you view life? (UR, I am interested in your thoughts as well, just not in this thread.)

As do I

Answer: In the beginning there was the word and the word was good...wait that's not my story... I've always known Christianity as a basis for how I should live, what's right and wrong, etc. When I moved out for two years right after H/S into my own apt I went sorta wild (no drugs shockingly). I went back home one weekend for my brothers 6th birthday. Went to church and felt bad for all that fun. Then, me being me (I question just about anything) thought to myself, 'wait a second i was fine til I cam back to church..." I still have a good foundation for morals (respecting parents and elders, manners, etc [then again my parents are from Texas so it could be my good ol' Southern upbringin']) All in all it created a foundation of thing I should and shouldn't do, but doesn't really confine me to certain ways anymore.

[Guest]

I practice both Christianity and the art of flirting. I have come to be well versed in both.

Anyhow back to the discussion...

How do you (thiests) believe you faith affects the way you view life?

It effects everything in life. If you read the atheist discussion, they have a long talk abou life being meaningless and that we should just do whatever feels good and then die. Nothing you do in this life matters to you because after you die you just disappear from conciousness. Sp?

Very depressing thoughts.

My faith gives me purpose.

It also helps me explain the world as I see it. I'm not talking about science or anything like that, I'm talking about the way each and every human sees the world. Evolution, without a designer, doesnt and cant explain things like love, beauty, right and wrong, ect... I see a beautiful sunset from my home in NM (desert sunsets are the best!), where did I get the notion that this is beautiful. According to an Atheistic view of evolution, beauty should be only seen as things that help me survive and spread my "seeds" so the species can continue. Where does love come from? According to atheists, I should co-mingle with, impregnate, as many females as possible. Why does the majority of cultures throughout the world practice monogomy? (Majority was used on purpose, I know there are exceptions). Believing in a god helps me to explain these differences between humans and every other species on the earth (and I also know that there are some monogomous species out there too).

[Guest]

Another thing it explains is the fact that every culture in the world has a religion.

Lets say that we evoled without design. Who thought up the crack-pot idea that there is/are higher being/s? Yet everyone did! The need for a god (or at least an explanation of existence) is a fundamental part of every human being.

If this need is just a natural phenonon (sp?), why isnt there evidence of religion in other intelligent species, like dolphins or elephants or apes? humans are different.

Edited September 9, 2008 by NM_EJL

[Guest]

I believe in God. But I also believe that children raised with different beliefs, whether right or wrong, won't be condemned for what their parents raised them to believe. I don't go to church, but I have faith. Remember the black & white ink blot with the 4 dots in the middle, you stare and then close your eyes and Jesus appears... That vision gave me a very peaceful feeling.

I also believe in evalution... Where the 2 meet, I have no idea. It is a bit confusing I must say...

[Guest]

Did anyone here watch that Ben Stien movie called "No Room for Intelligence?" It's mostly propoganda but he makes some good arguements.

If no ones seen it and you all still want a vague summary, let me know.

Edited September 9, 2008 by NM_EJL

[Guest]

I also believe in evalution... Where the 2 meet, I have no idea. It is a bit confusing I must say...

It's not that confusing with the right perspective. I'm in the same boat. I believe in evolution, but that doesnt mean that there is no god, nor does it conflict with the Bible.

god is god and he/she/it can create as he/she/it pleases. god would have to be a moron to create something as complex as our universe/world and not allow it to evolve, meaning change to fit changing circumstances, as we all know exist here on earth. The bible is full of figurative language, why couldnt the beginning of Genisis be the same way? The book ends figuratively (if you've read Revalations then you know what I'm talking about).

[Guest]

It's not that confusing with the right perspective. I'm in the same boat. I believe in evolution, but that doesnt mean that there is no god, nor does it conflict with the Bible.

god is god and he/she/it can create as he/she/it pleases. god would have to be a moron to create something as complex as our universe/world and not allow it to evolve, meaning change to fit changing circumstances, as we all know exist here on earth. The bible is full of figurative language, why couldnt the beginning of Genisis be the same way? The book ends figuratively (if you've read Revalations then you know what I'm talking about).

evolution is a definite, it's called natural selection. It's also internal. Think about it, how has man survived all these years? Our internal immune system evolves in order to combat disease. Without this evolution, none of us would be here.

[Guest]

evolution is a definite, it's called natural selection. It's also internal. Think about it, how has man survived all these years? Our internal immune system evolves in order to combat disease. Without this evolution, none of us would be here.

Thats my point. Fact: evolution happens.

[Guest]

I think that everyone feels something deep down in their heart, and the condition of your heart is what is truly important. The thing that seems to get Atheists in a tiff is when Theists use their religious books and teachings to explain the "Truth" and how they feel rather than just freely expressing their ideas of love and peace. You should say, "This is how I fell, not because I'm Christian or whatever." Religion is simply a tool to help us become more spiritual. That is where Buddhists excel b/c it is all about self discovery. God exists in YOU and you must know yourself and be a good person to manifest it more thoroughly.

To answer your question PG, there are different sects of Buddhism, there is even a sect that believes in a type of afterlife in Heaven with "Amida" (the compassionate Buddha, perhaps you've heard of that one? The one where they chant "Namu Amida Butsu" which means "May Amida be praised" (very similar to almost every Christian doctrine about afterlife and God, just without a messiah of sorts.

The Kuran teaches a lot about submission to God's will, which is not very reinforced in Christianity unfortunately. However, Christianity believes more in "making the good choice on your own" which I think is just down right hard to do if you live in the states...Which it is why I found that through practicing Ch'an Buddhism, or Zen in Japanese, helped me to become a better Christian.

You must have an open mind and sometimes be willing to change paths to the top of the Mountain, or the journey's end (life ) to better understand. My advice to anyone is this: If the path you are on leaves you feeling like you're still not getting it, don't give up, just change to a different path. You might suprise yourself.