[unreality]

(1)

A large Mafia game is at the point where there are 9 people left: 4 Mafia, 2 Yakuza, 3 Townsfolk. There are no special or individual roles.

Mafia: kill each night. Goal: kill everyone else

Yakuza: kill each night. Goal: kill everyone else

Townsfolk: no kill or BTSC. Goal: kill all the baddies via lynchings

The Mafia vote in a block for one of the Townsfolk, basically outing themselves. The voted-for Townsfolk quickly votes for one of the Mafiosos, and the other 2 Townsfolk follow suit, leaving 2 undecided voters (the Yakuza), whom the Mafia call out as the Yakuza and ask for help. So now basically everyone knows everyone's role.

The Mafia ask the Yakuza to vote with them to kill the Townsfolk player, promising they won't attack them the following night, and etc. The Townsfolk plead for the Yakuza to help them.

You are one of the Yakuza: what do you do? And not just for this one lynching, but in all the lynchings and night kills til the end of the game, what do you do? Remember, you want to win!

Notes: Majority (over 1/2) is needed for a lynch. If a lynch is a tie, the outcome is 50-50 who will die

Notes: If two baddie factions attack each other at the end of the game to eliminate each other (example: 1 Mafioso and 1 Yakuza left, they attack each other at night), they both kill each other and they both win

Notes: There is no play for 2nd place

(2)

The next problem is the same scenario (even the Notes ;D), except the Yakuza's win condition is to kill the last remaining Townsfolk. If there is only 1 Yakuza left and 1 Townsfolk and X amount of Mafiosos, if the Y attacks the T, but the M attacks the Y, the Yakuza gets their kill in first and wins the game before the Mafia can off the Yakuza. Also, in that same situation, if the Mafia goes for the Townsfolk in the same night as the Yakuza, the Yakuza get their kill in first and win.

(2a) Everyone knows the Yakuza's win condition

(2b) The Yakuza's win condition is secret

Does anything change between 2a and 2b?

***

Good luck, and use spoilers!

[edit: added "and use spoilers" ;D]

Edited September 8, 2008 by unreality

[unreality]

No takers?

[Guest]

No takers?

I've looked at it, but haven't gotten very far.

the only way they can win is with townsfolk help later - and that's not likely to happen once they've chosen to side with mafia.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Cherry Lane

[Mekal]

for #1

The yazuka need to side with the mafia, then kill the mafia, thenside with the innocents, then kill a mafiso, thenside with the inoccents,

[Guest]

If I have my thinking correct, they should vote against the mafia, killing the mafioso in the lynch. The mafia will kill a Yakuza in the night and the Yakuza kill an innocent. This leaves 3 mafiosos, 1 Yakuza and 2 innocents for the next day's vote. This time, the Yakuza should side with the mafia to lynch an innocent. This will leave one innocent for the night and regardless of what happens then, the Yakuza will win.

I need to think more about the other questions...

[unreality]

dawh: good job with 2b

Though I assure you, there is a way they could pull off a win in 1 - at a certain point they have to make a pact of sorts, and 2a is possible, though I think (IIRC) chances are part of it, and it's harder

[Guest]

dawh: good job with 2b

Though I assure you, there is a way they could pull off a win in 1 - at a certain point they have to make a pact of sorts, and 2a is possible, though I think (IIRC) chances are part of it, and it's harder

I'd need to spend more time (which I don't have <_< ) to figure out 2a.

It's far more likely that the others will turn on you at some point. The innocents really seem screwed in 2a. They know that the others are trying to kill them and that the Yakuza win if they kill the last innocent, so it becomes more of a who would the innocents rather win, Mafia or Yakuza? There might be a way around it, but I don't have time to find it.