What is Correct

[Guest]

The 'or' implies that at least one is correct. As only once change has occurred we must assume that the correctness refers to the change.

OR does not imply that at least one is correct. It implies such only if the statement is true. That is, only one statement in an OR clause need to be true for the entire statement to be true (although not all statements need be true, only one of them). Thus, if the answer is "No", then all statements are false. Whereas an AND clause requires all statements to be true to be true, otherwise the entire clause is false if a single statement is false.

On the other hand I'm putting my foot down that the grammatical correctness, despite the presence of the word "sum"-- which may only be a typo, is "seven and five IS thirteen (in base 13)".

Look at these examples. Never do they ask, "What are the sum of x + y?" It's always in the format, "What IS the sum of...". Thus a little reverse engineering would enlighten our tiny brains to the truth that math uses "IS" as an equality and not "ARE".

Good day!

[Guest]

OR does not imply that at least one is correct. It implies such only if the statement is true. That is, only one statement in an OR clause need to be true for the entire statement to be true (although not all statements need be true, only one of them). Thus, if the answer is "No", then all statements are false. Whereas an AND clause requires all statements to be true to be true, otherwise the entire clause is false if a single statement is false.

On the other hand I'm putting my foot down that the grammatical correctness, despite the presence of the word "sum"-- which may only be a typo, is "seven and five IS thirteen (in base 13)".

Look at these examples. Never do they ask, "What are the sum of x + y?" It's always in the format, "What IS the sum of...". Thus a little reverse engineering would enlighten our tiny brains to the truth that math uses "IS" as an equality and not "ARE".

Good day!

You are are happy with what instead of which then!

[Guest]

Neither - their twelve

[Guest]

That's just silly, seven and five is twelve.

[Guest]

The answer is "is". This is a grammar question not a math one. It is true that 7+5 is 12 and not 13, but that is irrelivant.

[Guest]

7 and 5 make 12 not 13

[Guest]

u nearly got me with that one

[Guest]

The answer is "is". This is a grammar question not a math one. It is true that 7+5 is 12 and not 13, but that is irrelivant.

Where does it say the question is about grammar?

If you were asked: "Is it correct that seven and five is thirteen?" would you answer yes or no? Probably no since 7 and 5 is 12.

If you were asked: "Is it correct that seven and five are thirteen?" would you answer yes or no? Probably no, either because of the math or grammar.

So, since both statements independently are false when they are combined with an OR: "Is it correct that seven and five is thirteen or seven and five are thirteen?" the entire statement is also false so the answer must be No.

What confused me a bit is the title, "Which is correct". Which does imply one of multiple options is correct (and perhaps more than one). But the actual statement says "Is it correct" so it isn't a choice in finding one that is proper, but in determining if the entire statement is correct.

edit: And now re-reading it I see the title is actually 'What is Correct' not 'Which is Correct'. I don't know how 'What' would be applied here, sounds more philosophical than grammar or math

Edited April 25, 2008 by Steve Luke

[Guest]

Well the question is asked in a grammatical way, so I would say the correct grammar is "Seven and five are thirteen".

If you take it as a mathematical equation then as far as I know AND operand means plus (sum), therefore answer should be "Seven and five are twelve (7+5 = 12)"

[Guest]

omg none of them are correct 7+5=12 not 13 so none of them are correct

[Guest]

The answer is "is". This is a grammar question not a math one. It is true that 7+5 is 12 and not 13, but that is irrelivant.

No and yes. Yes, this can be viewed as a grammar question, however you need to review your grammar rules.

As a grammar question the answer is "are". It is not correct to say two objects together are singular. Seven AND five denote a group of two objects. Singular uses "is", plural uses "are".

Example: A pen and a pencil ARE on my desk. Both objects are singular, together with "and" are plural.

OR

Example: Seven units and five units are thirteen. All numbers are a way of keeping track of something; distance, apples, atoms, some variable, etc.

If it was stated "seven plus five is/are thriteen", the answer would be "is". Seven plus five (or the sum) is a singular result, twelve.

Or another option would be to state it as "the SUM of seven and five is/are thirteen". Sum is singular, therefore uses "is" and that would be correct.

The whole point of this question is to prove your answer. If you say neither, 7+5=12, than you are correct. If you say "are" based on seven AND five denote a group of two objects, and are therefore plural, than you are correct.

If you say "is", that is incorrect grammar and therefore incorrect.

[Guest]

Hello everybody... I am fascinated that there has been so much discussion (wonderful banter) about this seemingly basic topic. My comments are:

First: The addition of 7 and 5 is 12, and the addition of 5 plus 7 is 12; not 13!

Now, if we consider that as a typo and just focus on the grammar:

As I understand 'translating math into English' (or vice versa), the word "and" means decimal point. Therefore, neither is correct because "7 and 5" is something like 7.5, and "5 and 7" is something like 5.7. As an example, consider writing a check (something not performed too much since the dominance of 'plastic'): when one must write out the amount of the check, the "and" acts as the decimal.

Interestingly, there is another quirk with this topic. Mathematically, both statements "7 and 5" and "5 and 7" are meaningless because we have not specified any relationship (add, subtract, etc...) between the two numbers; we only make reference to them. Therefore, it is silly to discuss the meaning of the equals sign when there is no meaningful expression to be equal to anything.

To determine if "is" or "are" is the correct word to use for the equality, we must first correctly iterate the expression, and then look at it's components. Try some examples... absolute value and quadratics provide some interesting grist.

"chow"

[Guest]

Have just discovered this subject and sorry, I haven't read all 7 pages (how amazing that such a little thing can lead to so many comments). So here are a few more with apologies if someone has already said what I'm about to:

- I love these red herrings that lead you completely up the wrong path making you miss the obvious. Obviously the maths answer is 12 not 13 but I fell for it not seeing the deliberate mistake on first reading.

- Grammatically the correct word is "is", i.e. 7 and 5 is 12. Why? Because the verb "is" (to be) relates to the sum total (one thing, hence singular "is" and not plural "are") and not to the two, or in other operations, more numbers that make up the total. The numbers 7 and 5 are not 12, they are always 7 and 5 respectively and it is only when they are added that their total IS 12.

[Guest]

It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

[Guest]

neither,

5 and 7 does not equal 13...

[Guest]

seven and five are twelve

I love goldyfish!

[Guest]

A way to take the math out of the problem and make it less arguable; "The yolk of an egg IS white, or the yolk of an egg ARE white."

[Guest]

haha i was thinking about it for like an hour then im like omfg duh!

[Guest]

What is Correct - Back to the Logic Puzzles

Is it correct that seven and five is thirteen or seven and five are thirteen?

Of course, while we are on the subject of grammar...the question should read: "Which is correct?"

[Guest]

the answer is neither because seven plus five is twelve. and correct english is "seven and five is twelve." well, even if it isn't "correct," that is the colloquial way of saying it. why? because we say seven plus five IS twelve, so why would you say seven and five are twelve? it just sounds weird.

Good point because if you say 'seven and five ARE twelve' then you are effectively not finishing your sentence as it implies that the sentence is 'seven and five are twelve somethings'

Edited October 5, 2008 by Nubia

[Guest]

yes because dont you use "are" for plural subjects, not exactly numbers?

[Guest]

Actually, if it is a math question...

7 AND 5 is 5 (logical and)

If and implies addition, the expression is FALSE (because 7 + 5 == 13 is not true).

Just ading a diferent twist.

[Guest]

it doesn't equal 13 it equals 12 and its is

[Guest]

I don't really think it's a question entirely about math. Wouldn't the word "makes" or "equals" need to be in there to make you add? or "the sum of seven and five is..."

The words is and are imply a state of being which numbers by themselves do not have. To me the only way this statement makes sense is to say that seven and five are numbers of some kind of nouns. I guess they would be pronouns in the statement. And 13 is another sort of designation.

Apples and oranges are fruit.

That being said I didn't see it as asking me to add the numbers together. I saw them as seperate objects. Maybe 13 year old students (wouldn't that be about right for the age group of this sort of question?)

Seven and five are thirteen.

Seven is thirteen

Five is thirteen

Seven and five equal twelve...

The sum of seven and five is twelve...

Also, another point. The information given by the question supports my logic. I just made up my own story as to how either statement could be correct. To me it asks which statement is correct. Not if 7+5=13.

If I had a teacher ask my kid this, then tell him he was wrong because he answered "ARE" I would be pretty pissed.

This question is probably why half of people that speak english say "apples IS good" instead of "apples ARE good"

I see your point, but this is math (a trick question, anyway), not grammar. By using the two figures merging together, I'd say "is", as long as the is/are is after the "and", I'm sticking with this.

[Guest]

dude 7+5 is 12...