[soop]

This one should be simple for poker players - include your reasoning.

4 people are playing texas 5 card hold-em with a twist. In the pack, there are 2 jokers.

If a player is dealt a joker, he has to declare its value and suit before the flop.

In the case of two players having jokers, both players must decide the value between them.

This gives the advantage of any card you want, but the distinct disadvantage that the other players know one of your two cards.

In this hand of poker, these are the cards:

Player A; Joker, Ace (S)

Player B; Joker, Ace (H)

Player C; King (S) Q (H)

Player D; King (H) J (S).

If the cards dealt are then K(D), A(D), Q(H), J(H), 2(D)

What would be the optimum value that both players could have decided upon?

[Prof. Templeton]

I don't play poker. It seems that the two players with jokers would agree to decare them as aces since they both have them as well. They would both win with three of a kind. Unless they were trying for a straight, but before the flop it would seem a long-shot and it would follow that the two players could only agree on a suit they did not have already so one did not have an advantage over the other.

[Guest]

I agree. If they have to be declared pre-flop, they would both decide on A© or A(d). There's no way you'd pass up aces in the hole. Also, the fact that both other players have two pair still gives you a possbility of a nice take down, as "exposing" one ace only gives you a for sure pr aces.

What happens if a Joker comes on flop, turn, or river? Who decides value then?

[Guest]

They should agree to pick a king so it's not that obvious they have aces (or everyone will know both of their cards). Ask what suit your opponent wants and object. Offer another suit (not your own) and chances are it will be rejected. To decide on the suit, flip a coin with heads being the suit of your ace and tails being the remaining suit. At least you have a 50% chance of having suited connectors, which increases your chances for a straight or flush.

[Prof. Templeton]

I agree. If they have to be declared pre-flop, they would both decide on A© or A(d). There's no way you'd pass up aces in the hole. Also, the fact that both other players have two pair still gives you a possbility of a nice take down, as "exposing" one ace only gives you a for sure pr aces.

What happens if a Joker comes on flop, turn, or river? Who decides value then?

Wouldn't all the players have to decide? Some bluffing involved maybe.

[Guest]

Mumbles, if you would take suited connecters over aces up, I've got a game you can come play in.

[Guest]

Wouldn't it also be wise to shoot the longshot since you have an ace already? Not only would this give better odds for the longshot it would bluff your opponent into thinking you have a pair of tens instead of aces, therefore your opponent with the joker would either agree with the ten knowing he has an ace and a good shot of beating your bluff tens or he would disagree and try to convince an ace so that he would have a pair of aces against your bluffed tens.

I know that sounds confusing but I think in this instance there are way too many variables in the bluff circle for an accurate answer.

Personally I would bluff asking for a ten, that way my opponent might be confused as to what I had, which is the whole strategy for bluffing right?

[Prime]

Before the flop?

If they have to decide before the flop, the cards dealt afterwards are irrelevant. Also, irrelevant are the cards held by C and D -- A and B cannot see them.

It may seem that each should try to set their Joker identical to the card they hold to increase the chace of Flush and other combinations. However, making Joker the same suit as the other card, may not increase the probability of Flush that much.

If A wants to be more clever, she should offer to set the card as an Ace of a suit other than Spades. On the other hand, if B is also clever, then decision becomes more ucertain...

Note, it is fortunate they both hold Ace, for other players may think they are setting Joker to Ace, just to avoid giving away their card.

If they had to decide after the flop -- it could have been more complicated decision.

[Guest]

Mumbles, if you would take suited connecters over aces up, I've got a game you can come play in.

On Winning Percentages, obviously Pocket Rockets. But if I'm trying to conceal the contents of my hand, selecting the King can be more useful against your opponents. If people know you have Pocket Aces, you lose your complete betting angle the entire time. If they think you have something else and you slowplay things, the end of the hand could wind up being very profitable.

Remember: Every hand's a winner and every hand's a loser, and the best you can hope for is to die in your sleep...

[Guest]

In this hand of poker, these are the cards:

Player A; Joker, Ace (S)

Player B; Joker, Ace (H)

Player C; King (S) Q (H)

Player D; King (H) J (S).

If the cards dealt are then K(D), A(D), Q(H), J(H), 2(D)

Is there a typo here? How can the Q(H) be both in player C's hand and in the flop?

[Guest]

The jokers allow the possibility that there will be two of the same card in play. This raises a couple of questions:

1. How do you handle 5 (or even 6) of a kind? Does it just count as four of a kind, or is it above straight flush, or what?

2. Does a flush with two aces beat a flush with one ace? Or would it go to the next highest card in the two-ace flush?

[Prime]

The jokers allow the possibility that there will be two of the same card in play. This raises a couple of questions:

1. How do you handle 5 (or even 6) of a kind? Does it just count as four of a kind, or is it above straight flush, or what?

2. Does a flush with two aces beat a flush with one ace? Or would it go to the next highest card in the two-ace flush?

In the end, all combinations in poker are constructed from 5 cards only. 6th card cannot be used, even to break a tie.

5 of a kind beats straight flush. Natural Ace beats Joker in tie-breaks. So whoever got flush with natural Ace wins. Otherwise, second "unnatural" Ace breaks the tie. Those are the rules that I remembered. I make no claim they are "official" rules.

Interesting variation, when Joker is among the five face-up cards on the table. There is a possibility for more than one player getting flush with two different suits.

[soop]

Mumbles got it right. most people approached this from the point of view of the players with the jokers; mumbles gave some thought as to the other people. now I'm not saying that anyone would chose a king over an ace, but the question was which hand is optimal. if a king is chosen, both player a and b still split the pot, but it's likely to be bigger. both player c and will assume either a or b has two kings, but this will seem unlikely when two kings appear on the field. from d and c's point of view, it's safer to bet on the kings.