Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Which by now should be obvious. Guess who switched me and Kat on the roster? I'd still like input from all you guys on whether you think I should blow me, reaymond, and star_tiger up today. If not, I could do it anytime so long as I don't die(which is an issue). And tomorrow there would be more options. You seriously don't want to kill FIF in a lynch; we will lose more than one Jumper. The reason that he hasn't been contributing much is because he spends most of his time talking to me. We are Yin/Yang and we've been spying on people's identities. I don't know anything about star_tiger or reaymond, but they both seem highly suspicious to me as others (including Itachi) were targeting Reaymond and star_tiger has joined the vote against FIF. THe Paladins know that he is not one of them, so they are happy to target him when a bunch of Jumpers are too. Frost, I would council that you do target them because I don't have ST on my friend list and everyone thinks that Reaymond is dangerous. I'm changing my vote to Brandonb because we were informed that he was the Paramedic on the first night. Since it seems apparent that he isn't a Jumper who can hide his identity, I suspect that he is the Mercenary. I would still like to take out the Crusader, but I have no clue who that is. ST could be it... Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Frozen 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student 8) foolonthehill - voting for Reaymond 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Reaymond 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for Frozen 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched I will be on before the day is over to provide what evidence I can if people aren't convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 So now I know that there is at least one more person is lying about their role, particularly as everyone seems to be claining a spy role <_<. But assuming most people are telling the truth, I am worried that we're getting ourselves overexposed. Firstly, we have the Crusader knowing who we are so he can use his ability, but more worrying in my mind is the Federal Agent. I think he has something about knowing our roles in his win condition (there has been no indication of arrests in the posts which was my first thought for his win condition), so am worried if we all give away too much info. With this in mind, I am going back to my accusation that either CP or dms is almost certainly one of the independents because one of them knows too much. I have implied this a couple of times and each time another name is thrown out to confuse us. dms' claim to be the Warrior now makes it even more important that we get to the bottom of this. Frost: are you able to change your 'innocent bystander' if need be when you kill your target? Or does it have to be the person next to you? Everyone else: be careful what you say to expose yourself. My vote stands for now until more evidence is given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandonb Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Well I'll vote for Reaymond right now since it's fairly clear that he's a Paladin and I have strong reason to believe that FIF is a Jumper. He hasn't contributed much, but that doesn't mean much. My thoughts exactly, which is why I wrote the following message yesterday. Now I wish I had posted it then, b/c I think you are confirming it. -------------------------------------------------------------------- What should I say to prevent myself from getting killed? Give me an "accusation" of why I'm suspicious and I'll try to defend myself against it. First, Frost just voted against me because I was inactive, not because I was suspicious or anything. Sure. You are suspicious b/c you have been deliberately minimizing everything that you do. You are not participating at all in this game thread, which means that you more than likely are doing something outside the thread, like constantly PMing with the other Paladins. Even the very few posts that you have made contain nothing more than statements like taliesins on, could you give us your defense? (even though I'm not voting for you) Dow we still PM you for the location? Same here, star_tiger... I'm really not sure on who to trust with this one. I'm kinda leaning towards Itachi but I'll have to see what happens next to make a solid decision. There is nothing to your posts. You may as well be typing random letters into your posts since all you are trying to do is lay under the radar like a good little paladin and not get booted for inactivity. Your deliberate inactivity is what makes you suspicious. And looking at the posts that you actually did make... you can't even claim that you were physically inactive b/c of school, you were deliberately avoiding any contribution to figuring out who the Paladins are. Just like as if you had made a statement that was highly suspect in which you cannot take back, you have failed to make any statements at all to contribute to our fight against the paladins and you cannot take your lack of substance back. You cannot now suddenly pretend to rejoin the ranks of the real jumpers, when you have already botched 8 days of activity. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- About the paramedic thing. I am obviously not the Paramedic. The fact that you are accusing me of this, and having known this little bit of info from Day 1 without sharing it just helps to prove that you are just trying to save your paladin buddy. Oh, and BTW. Has no one else figured out CP's objective yet? I'm just glad that Dawh is lying, otherwise she would have possibly won the game today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dms172 Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Frozen 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student 8) foolonthehill - voting for Reaymond 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Reaymond 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched i have heard anything from JS so i want to here from him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) Dawh is speaking the truth: we are both Yin/Yang. And we cannot exist in a world without the other one. So if you lynch me, then you're pretty much lynching two Jumpers and minimizing your chances for winning this game. ON the first night, we were informed that BrandonB was the Paramedic. However, since the paramedic was revealed to really be taliesin, we now assume, based on the brief description of the Mercernary, that Brandonb is it and that he must be lynched. Don't believe us? Well, if dawh and I both die, you know who to blame, at least. On the second night, we used our zen dislocation to discover that woon is an innocent. I will not say what particular role he is unless absolutely necessary. Never disclose that type of information. On the third night, we found out that Itachi was the Reflex, which was pretty much pointless, seeing as he died on that night. Besides BrandonB and Star_Tiger though, I would also like to throw a bit of suspicion on Kathleen. It might just be that paranoia, but doesn't it seem a little suspicious that Kathleen voted for reaymond without saying anything, then as soon as BrandonB suggested that they should vote for me, Kathleen switched? I dunno... And if none of you believe me... I'd just like to add that you're digging two graves... Enough to my post, BrandonB? Edited November 7, 2008 by frozen_in_fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) i have heard anything from JS so i want to here from him Is that so that you can find out his role? Perhaps, if you are the FA, that's the only one you have left to discover? Oh, and BTW. Has no one else figured out CP's objective yet? And are you suggesting she's the Rogue? Either way: no, I haven;t! That's why I want to find out about dms too.... As for frozen/dawh, you've said nothing that helps me, I'm afraid. Saying woon is an innocent but not giving his role doesn't help you as it can't be confirmed (btw, woon, I don't think you should anyway - see my last post), we know who Itachi is so that's an easy out, and if I had seen Brandonb as a role I know to be dead, I would have pushed him much more for information immediately to explain - Innocents rarely have anything to hide, except from Baddies (maybe hiding from the cardinal?). I think you are right that we are making two graves though: if one of you is proved to be lying, then the other is too. And that's currently is the only thing swaying me in your favour, because it's a do or die outing and a big risk for the paladin! But it's not enough I'm afraid: Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Frozen 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student 8) foolonthehill - voting for Frozen 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Reaymond 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched I'm putting both Reaymond, star_tiger and Kat to one side for now as the evidence appears to be largely circumstantial (edit: except perhaps for Reaymond). Our lynching is a much more important decision, then they can explain once they are safe from the Crusader. edit2: I'm still keen to hear more about what you have to do, Frost, and who you could kill in addition to Reaymond. Edited November 7, 2008 by foolonthehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 BrandonB MUST go... Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Frozen 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student 8) foolonthehill - voting for Reaymond 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Brandonb 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched i have heard anything from JS so i want to here from him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) BrandonB MUST go... Half an hour to come up with an argument since my post and that's all you can come up with in response? I'm sorry frozen, but you're digging your own grave now in my eyes. Especially as, to save yourself, you should be voting for Reaymond, who's our only other reasonable alternative for the lynching! edit: clarity edit2: If this is right, I now have strong suspicions that Reaymond is also a Paladin, so the Warrior can take him tonight if we need to. Edited November 7, 2008 by foolonthehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Half an hour to come up with an argument since my post and that's all you can come up with in response? I'm sorry frozen, but you're digging your own grave now in my eyes. Especially as, to save yourself, you should be voting for Reaymond, who's our only other reasonable alternative for the lynching! edit: clarity edit2: If this is right, I now have strong suspicions that Reaymond is also a Paladin, so the Warrior can take him tonight if we need to. Why don't you believe me? Give me one question about anything that has to do with winning this game and proving my role and I'll try to answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 hmm all this banter back and forth, very interesting. But the most important piece of Information is that Brandonb claimed to be paramedic. I dont remember this.. can someone tell me what post it was? NVM I will loook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Frozen 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student 8) foolonthehill - voting for Frozen 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Brandonb 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched Changing my vote again - which you conveniently missed. <_< (though I'll accept that as an honest error for now, millions wouldn't!) Why don't you believe me? Give me one question about anything that has to do with winning this game and proving my role and I'll try to answer it. It's the Brandonb thing I don't get. If your role identified him as a role that you knew was dead, why wouldn't you question him on it? I can't beleive that there are any role descriptions that hide one jumper from another. The only alternatives are possibly the Rogue, but I have another idea on that so have discounted that option, or that you are Paladin and he can hide from you. edit: CP, I don't think brandonb did claim the paramedic - I think frozen was the first to bring it up in order that he could vote for him. That's the other thing that's odd about frozen and dawh. Why wouldn't they just vote for Reaymond? That's got to be his best chance of surviving this lynch. I think they took a risk and it hasn't paid off. Edited November 7, 2008 by foolonthehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Half an hour to come up with an argument since my post and that's all you can come up with in response? I'm sorry frozen, but you're digging your own grave now in my eyes. Especially as, to save yourself, you should be voting for Reaymond, who's our only other reasonable alternative for the lynching! edit: clarity edit2: If this is right, I now have strong suspicions that Reaymond is also a Paladin, so the Warrior can take him tonight if we need to. The reason that I switched to Bb is that we need a new target if Frost kills Reaymond. We weren't sure if Bb was a baddie or a Jumper who could hide his identity. We also weren't sure if he knew that he had been spied on. If he knew that someone had looked at him and picked the Paramedic as a response, he would be looking to see who came after him on the second day. As we weren't sure if he was the Shadow (which I thought might be able to hide his role) we decided that it was best to wait and see. In any case, there were other targets readily available and we weren't too concerned about dying as there were many others in the Paladin's crosshairs that seemed far more dangerous to them than two people who were not talking very much/targeting Jumpers for lynches (sorry itachi, woon. ) Itachi was continuing to pressure woon on the second day; at which point, I had my "epiphany" about being unable to find the posts I had previously found incriminating and then I tried to subtly get itachi to stop trying to get woon killed. On day 1... Sorry woon, but something you said set off my danger radar. And Reaymond, I assume that you haven't read most of the Mafia games on this forum as I have generally been an active member of many of them. I'm going to leave your assertion alone for the time being unless you give me reason to change my mind about you. Day 2... I'm a little confused at this point about why woon's name is being thrown around as a baddie? People have stated (myself included ) that woon has done/said some suspicious things, but no one has actually offered up explicit evidence of those transgressions. I went back and looked and I didn't see the things that I thought I saw originally; plus based on how the voting went yesterday, I'm not nearly so sure about woon's faction at this point... What have JS and itachi seen that makes them think that woon is bad? I asked earlier about why woon keeps ending up on the hot seat (not that it particularly hot right now) and JS said he'd get back to me, but never did because the discussion went back to itachi and Bb (and now PM) and itachi has never really given his reasons for thinking that woon was bad. He also hasn't really provided that much evidence as to his innocence (except to "claim" some role that I am currently missing right now; apparently my brain is going through a dense period right now. ) That being said, I think I'll vote for itachi; at least until I hear an explanation for his pressure on woon. Another huge risk on our part would be to claim the roles of Yin/Yang. At least one of them has to be alive (as Mekal has the only unidentified role, so there are a two people who would know that we are lying and that would work against us. Of all the roles to claim, Y/Y seems the most foolish to be lying about. I hope that's a start toward convincing people, although I suspect that I have been talking mainly to Paladins so far...I hope that the Jumpers start getting on soon. CP you misunderstand me, we spied on Bb and we were told that he was the Paramedic during the night. I'll reiterate that I changed the vote to Bb (and FIF with me) because I was also counciling Frost to kill Reaymond and ST. If anyone has doubts about ST being a Paladin (or independent,) then I'm all for lynching Reaymond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) Another huge risk on our part would be to claim the roles of Yin/Yang. At least one of them has to be alive (as Mekal has the only unidentified role, so there are a two people who would know that we are lying and that would work against us. Of all the roles to claim, Y/Y seems the most foolish to be lying about. I hope that's a start toward convincing people, although I suspect that I have been talking mainly to Paladins so far...I hope that the Jumpers start getting on soon. More accusations? I think we can be fairly certain that Frost is not a paladin and there are good reasons why I haven't been implicated before. I honestly can't speak for Brandonb/Kat/star_tiger and am quite happy to come back to examine them later (after I have dealt with you and dms/CP <_<). I may well be wrong about this, and I agree that it would be a huge risk for you to take, but as your numbers are potentially diminishing fast (if we are right about some of Raymond/Kat/star_tiger/woon), I wouldn't be completely surprised to see you take such a big risk. If we get this right, then we have almost completely beaten the Paladin, but we may be wrong, which is why I will let others discuss it with you now (and because I have too much real work to do before leaving for the weekend) edit: apologies, I thought that fif had voted for Brandonb, but as you say, it was you. My mistake. Edited November 7, 2008 by foolonthehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) Yeah I miss read it. Damn...and spent 30min re reading the posts.. grrr...that damn 'if' really turned the whole concept of that post around. This is why juries get turned so easily.... <_< ok so who to go after? We need to take out a paladin...so choose Kat ??crusader?? raymond is the cardinal star tiger??head paladin?? brandonb possibly the mercenary prince marth was the sheperd edit...I am a goodie! I am not a baddie! Lets focus on nailing a paladin and not someone like me. Jump Jump Jump!! Edited November 7, 2008 by crazypainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I want to add that I was not in the limelight at any time during this vote. If I am a Paladin, it would have be strategically stupid to throw myself into the middle of the fight. If both Reaymond and FIF were Paladins (and FIF is not, <_< ) then I by outing myself, I would be giving the Jumpers another free target. That would be all of the Paladins right there since PM is dead. Either (1) Reaymond, FIF and I are all Paladins (is that likely? ) or (2) Reaymond is not and we both are (in which case, we would have just voted for Reaymond with some reason to believe that FIF is good,) or (3) we are telling the truth and we believe that Reaymond is a Paladin. As I said before, (1) is strategically stupid as we have all revealed ourselves in that case. It would have been far smarter to let one go and for the other two of us to stay silent as to our identities (claimed or otherwise.) (2) How many people here think that Reaymond is a Jumper? (3) We have nothing to gain (and a lot to lose ) by lying in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) WHOA lots of catching up to do... Ok first off... DMS YOU LIAR! I'm the warrior, I've said that already, it is the honest to goodness truth, maybe you all missed that post right before the night post, but it's there. I only did it as a last resort, because you all seem so convinced. My only hope is that the Paladins don't kill me off like they have others during the day... Secondly... The warrior can not take on other roles, or talk to people. The only thing they can do it attack every night, and has only a 15% escape chance. Thirdly... Sorry I haven't been giving explainations. I honest to goodness don't know who is who, I'm really not feeling on top of my game this mafia, I don't know who to listen to. Right now I'm inclined to believe that Frozen is telling the truth. I'll attack Reaymond tonight, if I'm still alive, but who the lynch? Now that I know for sure dms is bad, I'm gonna vote for him. I'm sorry if you guys don't believe me, but it's the honest truth. I'm not ALWAYS a baddie... <(>_<)> Edited November 7, 2008 by Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Dms 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student 8) foolonthehill - voting for Frozen 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Brandonb 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched Here's my vote <(>_<)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe's Student Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) Ok first sorry for not being as active as usual, have been totally exhausted. Last night I fell asleep reading your Night Post unreality - which isn't a reflection of your storytelling, trust me it just shows how tired I was. So we have reaymond down as bad, ST down as bad and and on going thing between dawh/FIF/foolonthehill, Bb down as bad (as I've been saying all along!) and suspicions to do with Kat and Dms. First of all I'm inclined to agree with dawh and FIF on this. dawh's argument is logical, whereas FOTH's argument is solely based on FIF's inactivity and some incitement at the hands of Bb. dawh mentioned how on Day 1 he was suspicious of woon and how he no longer was on day 2. I'd made a note of that myself and is one of the reasons I'm inclined to believe dawh/FIF. Another is that if you're a paladin, the one role you don't claim is a Ying/Yang who everyone guessed to have BTSC. I could bring up alot more points of people wanted... Which leads to me to question fool... why so eager on this? dawh has given more than a reasonable defence in my eyes, and when we have an almost sure baddie in our midst in reaymond you continue to persist with the FIF being a paladin. Now I'm going to leave this line of thought for the time being, and I'm just going to urge people not to vote for FIF. That's actual madness IMO. Bb = mercenary... good to know your role -------------------------- As for my vote I'm going to withold for another short while as I want to hear from Frost again if possible, just to be clear on our plan. If it's certain he's taking reaymond we have more than one other target to try and lynch. Off topic: CP can I just say that I love your avatar , I've been meaning to say since you'd changed it but I really like it! Edit: a few little typos Edited November 7, 2008 by Joe's Student Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I want to add that I was not in the limelight at any time during this vote. If I am a Paladin, it would have be strategically stupid to throw myself into the middle of the fight. If both Reaymond and FIF were Paladins (and FIF is not, <_< ) then I by outing myself, I would be giving the Jumpers another free target. That would be all of the Paladins right there since PM is dead. Either (1) Reaymond, FIF and I are all Paladins (is that likely? ) or (2) Reaymond is not and we both are (in which case, we would have just voted for Reaymond with some reason to believe that FIF is good,) or (3) we are telling the truth and we believe that Reaymond is a Paladin. As I said before, (1) is strategically stupid as we have all revealed ourselves in that case. It would have been far smarter to let one go and for the other two of us to stay silent as to our identities (claimed or otherwise.) (2) How many people here think that Reaymond is a Jumper? (3) We have nothing to gain (and a lot to lose ) by lying in this situation. Before anyone calls me out on it, I want to mention that I miscounted the number of Paladins. If we were all Paladins, (1) above, there would still be one other, but I think that my point is still valid. BTW Kat, we can see a person's identity before the night is over, so we can give you a name (or tell you exactly who dms is before you kill him.) Considering his past actions and his current predicament, I would judge that he is the Rogue, as I initially thought. That's why I would suggest another target. If others want to lynch dms now, then I would agree to that, but the Jumpers need to have some solidarity right now as we're voting all over the map and the Paladins are able to capitalize on our indecision. It doesn't help us to be voting for JS, dms and Brandonb separately. We need to find one target and stick with it. I don't know anything about JS and I only have suspicions about dms, so that's why I am for getting rid of Bb. If we can come to a decision on any one person of those three (or another candidate if someone has a good option,) then FIF and I will switch to that person. Thanks Joe's Student, at least someone is trusting me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) First of all I'm inclined to agree with dawh and FIF on this. dawh's argument is logical, whereas FOTH's argument is solely based on FIF's inactivity and some incitement at the hands of Bb. dawh mentioned how on Day 1 he was suspicious of woon and how he no longer was on day 2. I'd made a note of that myself and is one of the reasons I'm inclined to believe dawh/FIF. Another is that if you're a paladin, the one role you don't claim is a Ying/Yang who everyone guessed to have BTSC. I could bring up alot more points of people wanted... Which leads to me to question fool... why so eager on this? dawh has given more than a reasonable defence in my eyes, and when we have an almost sure baddie in our midst in reaymond you continue to persist with the FIF being a paladin. Now I'm going to leave this line of thought for the time being, and I'm just going to urge people not to vote for FIF. That's actual madness IMO. Ok. I was all up for getting rid of Reaymond, and came back this afternoon to find that everyone had moved away from him, because it was assumed that the Warrior/Frost could get him tonight. And they went for frozen because he and dawh went a bit wierd in responding to an inactivity accusation. I never voted against FiF for inactivity - it was his and dawh's activity that threw me. My concern was that we find another good target - when I got back, dms was voting for you, some others for Bb and most for Frozen. As you might have been able to tell from my posts for about two days I would really like to get to the bottom of the dms/CP issue. But in the light of a bandwagonning that could see us killing 3 paladin today, I went along with it and questionned FiF further. I get your point about pretending to be the Yin/Yang being a big risk (and pointed it out first in my original post), but that doesn't mean they haven't done it. This game has to end soon, as even my own list of unknown roles is getting short. It all works on my list with the two of them as Paladin (along with Reaymond and one other). Now, obviously I might be wrong, and if I am, then we lose innocents, but in return we get to know that they did find out that Bb was hiding his role on the first day, so is almost certainly a paladin. It all added up to the secrecy all falling away with enough innocents left on top to win. Apart from the "it's a big risk" thing, I still can't see any evidence that they must be telling the truth. Imagine you are paladin who knew who the real Yin/Yang are (possibly one dead, or both not able to reveal their role for some reason), and came up with this option: this is exactly how I would see it being played out - everyone beleives you because it's preposterous that you're lying! If you allow me to lynch dms, who I think now must be the Rogue (check my posts), then I'll happily follow you. But otherwise, we need some focus on someone who is most likely to be a paladin (other than Raymond, who we all seem to have accepted!) edit: maybe I'm just too paranoid, and I promise to apoloise to you both if I'm wrong. edit2: lastly, with the large number of spy-type roles that are apparently around, I would be very surprised if the Yin/Yang get BTSC on the first day. I thought they might have had to find each other first (by going to the same place?), which aroused my suspicions as they said they got it from the start. Edited November 7, 2008 by foolonthehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe's Student Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 FOTH: Why would dawh out himself to save FIF when no one suspected him? There's another reason... I mean from a Paladin point of view that would be madness. Especially since we've nailed down most others. But why do you think dms is Rogue? (do you think the rogue could have role-discovering abilities?) And even he is, is the Rogue the most dangerous at the minute? Maybe he is, I'm actually not sure, but with reaymond AND Bb there, surely they're better options. I will ask you once again to remove your vote for Frozen. Btw, losing 2 innocents isn't exactly worth it I'm sorry, certainly with Mekal, PG and taliesin out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Ok. I was all up for getting rid of Reaymond, and came back this afternoon to find that everyone had moved away from him, because it was assumed that the Warrior/Frost could get him tonight. And they went for frozen because he and dawh went a bit wierd in responding to an inactivity accusation. I never voted against FiF for inactivity - it was his and dawh's activity that threw me. My concern was that we find another good target - when I got back, dms was voting for you, some others for Bb and most for Frozen. As you might have been able to tell from my posts for about two days I would really like to get to the bottom of the dms/CP issue. But in the light of a bandwagonning that could see us killing 3 paladin today, I went along with it and questionned FiF further. I get your point about pretending to be the Yin/Yang being a big risk (and pointed it out first in my original post), but that doesn't mean they haven't done it. This game has to end soon, as even my own list of unknown roles is getting short. It all works on my list with the two of them as Paladin (along with Reaymond and one other). Now, obviously I might be wrong, and if I am, then we lose innocents, but in return we get to know that they did find out that Bb was hiding his role on the first day, so is almost certainly a paladin. It all added up to the secrecy all falling away with enough innocents left on top to win. Apart from the "it's a big risk" thing, I still can't see any evidence that they must be telling the truth. Imagine you are paladin who knew who the real Yin/Yang are (possibly one dead, or both not able to reveal their role for some reason), and came up with this option: this is exactly how I would see it being played out - everyone beleives you because it's preposterous that you're lying! If you allow me to lynch dms, who I think now must be the Rogue (check my posts), then I'll happily follow you. But otherwise, we need some focus on someone who is most likely to be a paladin (other than Raymond, who we all seem to have accepted!) edit: maybe I'm just too paranoid, and I promise to apoloise to you both if I'm wrong. edit2: lastly, with the large number of spy-type roles that are apparently around, I would be very surprised if the Yin/Yang get BTSC on the first day. I thought they might have had to find each other first (by going to the same place?), which aroused my suspicions as they said they got it from the start. There are, at best, currently 7 Jumpers still alive and 4 Paladins. If Frost takes down Reaymond and Star_Tiger, and they are both Paladins, then that gives 6-2-1. If you then lynch FIF, we both will die; 4-2-1. If the Crusader targeted someone other than Frost, FIF, or me, then you have 3-2-1. If the warrior is still alive at this point, you can trade kills, and the rogue has the opportunity to kill, which would either result in 1-2-0 (if Paladins and Rogue kill different Jumpers and the Warrior kills the Rogue,) 1-1-0 if the Rogue kills a Paladin, the warrior kills the rogue and the Paladins kill a Jumper. There are other cases, but as you can see, this doesn't look very good for the Jumpers... The above assumes that Mekal was the FA, which is by no means confirmed. Of course, if Frost chooses not to kill anyone and we still lynch FIF (and me) then you have 5-4-1 in the best case. Those are not odds that I like, especially since its likely that one of the Jumpers will be killed by the Crusader in the day post; 4-4-1. The margins quickly become razor thin. That's why I urge all of the Jumpers to reconsider. Learning that Bb truly is a Paladin at the cost of two Jumpers seems a rather raw deal at this stage of the game. Right, JS said what I'm saying much more succinctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe's Student Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I've been saying since Day 1 that Bb is of the Jumper-hater mindset and is a Paladin. Because I believe dawh I now believe he is the mercenary. Jumpers please get online and switch your vote from FIF to Bb so that we don't lose two innocents (and probably 3 since the Crusader will no doubt be active). I've been waiting for more people to come online, it hasn't happened yet so I'm now going to vote... Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Dms 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student - voting for Brandonb 8) foolonthehill - voting for Frozen 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Brandonb 12) crazypainter - voting for Reaymond 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched woon, Foth, Frost, I'm aiming this request on you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe's Student Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Also I'd like to call on Kat, dms and CP to vote for Bb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I've been saying since Day 1 that Bb is of the Jumper-hater mindset and is a Paladin. Because I believe dawh I now believe he is the mercenary. Jumpers please get online and switch your vote from FIF to Bb so that we don't lose two innocents (and probably 3 since the Crusader will no doubt be active). I've been waiting for more people to come online, it hasn't happened yet so I'm now going to vote... Host: unreality 1) Reaymond voting for Frozen 2) Frost - voting for Frozen 3) star_tiger - voting for Frozen 4) Kathleen - voting for Dms 5) Brandonb - voting for Frozen 6) Dawh - voting for Brandonb 7) Joe's Student - voting for Brandonb 8) foolonthehill - voting for Frozen 9) Puzzlegirl - DEAD [Messenger] Killed by Crusader 10) itachi-san - DEAD [Reflex] Sacrificed self to save Crazypainter 11) Frozen_in_fire - voting for Brandonb 12) crazypainter - voting for Brandonb 13) Mekal - DEAD [?] Killed by the Paladins 14) dms172 - voting for JS 15) Prince_Marth85 - DEAD [shepherd] Lynched 16) woon - voting for Frozen 17) taliesin - DEAD [Paramedic] Lynched Ok I think you have a point = changed my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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