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Honestants and Swindlecants III.


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45 replies to this topic

#11 Brat

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:50 PM

I think that the following part is misleading:
"he warned that one guard is a Swindlecant"
because that definitely means that there is one guard who is a swindlecant, but what about the other guard? To me, the other guard could easily be either a swindlecant or an honestant with the above phrase still being correct.
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#12 =Cadet Zemm=

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:57 AM

The indirect question makes sense and I agree with it.

The Tricky question logic looks flawed to me, unless I am missing something. the question asked is 'Hey you, does an honestant stand at the door to freedom' Whilst your conclusions are correct as to the answers you will get, nothing actually indicates whether you are talking to an honestant or a swindlecant, So the conclusion you draw is that a honestant is standing in front of the door to freedom, but you still don't know which of the 2 is the honestant.

Is it me?



I was having the same problem... but it makes sense now, rookie1ja's second response clears it up if you read it carefully...

I'll try to explain it with what cleared it up for me (specifics ).

Let's say Door 1 leads to freedom and Door 2 to scaffolding:
You ask the guy in front of Door 1 if an honestant stands in front of the door to freedom:
If he's an honestant, he'll say yes, because an honestant does.
If he's a swindlecant, he'll lie and say yes (an honestant does), when, really, a swindlecant does.

If the Doors are swapped, and 1 leads to scaffolding and 2 to freedom and you ask the guy in front of Door 1 the same question:
If he's an honestant, he'll say no, because a swindlecant does.
If he's a swindlecant, he'll say no, because an honestant does.

So if he says yes, go through his door, if he says no, go through the other door.

Does that help?
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#13 bama_moss

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 05:40 PM

I think that the following part is misleading:
"he warned that one guard is a Swindlecant"
because that definitely means that there is one guard who is a swindlecant, but what about the other guard? To me, the other guard could easily be either a swindlecant or an honestant with the above phrase still being correct.




This was the same problem I ran into. If you note that both guards can be swindlecants or one of each then there is no single question that can solve this problem.
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#14 =Cadet Zemm=

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 06:49 PM


I think that the following part is misleading:
"he warned that one guard is a Swindlecant"
because that definitely means that there is one guard who is a swindlecant, but what about the other guard? To me, the other guard could easily be either a swindlecant or an honestant with the above phrase still being correct.




This was the same problem I ran into. If you note that both guards can be swindlecants or one of each then there is no single question that can solve this problem.



I didn't even think of that, but I went back and read the question again and it is misquoted above (unless the admin changed it since) as it now reads: "he warned that exactly one guard is a Swindlecant".
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#15 csp0104

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 12:16 AM

Didn't anyone see Labryinth??? The same question was used in that movie...

Sarah (Jennifer Connelly) is standing in front of two guards, each guarding a door. One of them "always tells the truth" and one of the "always lies"...

Sarah: "Would he tell me that this door leads to the castle?"
Guard 1: "Yes?"
Sarah: "Then the other door leads to the castle and this door leads to certain death."
Guard 1: "How do you know? He could be telling the truth!"
Sarah: "But then you wouldn't be."
Guard 1: "But I keep telling the truth!"
Sarah: "Then he would be lying."
Guard 1: "Is that right?"
Guard 2: "I don't know, I've never understood it!"

Great flick. Gotta love Jim Henson.
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#16 tommy

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 12:44 AM

i would ask the guard " which door led to scaffold" In case the guard was Honestant, he would point the correct door. Thus i would go to the other. if the guard was a Swindlecant, known to always lie, then he would lead me to the door of freedom..... I think......
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#17 tommy

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 01:25 AM

My first reply was pretty stupid. here is another shot at it. As the guard " if you were in my shoes which door would you choose. This is not true or false question. So even a swindlecants would answer correctly..... hope this is better...
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#18 dVs

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 06:25 PM

My first reply was pretty stupid. here is another shot at it. As the guard " if you were in my shoes which door would you choose. This is not true or false question. So even a swindlecants would answer correctly..... hope this is better...



sorry tommy, it doesn't matter if the question is a 'true or false'. the swindlecant would still lie, the honestant would still be truthful. the swindlecant would in fact tell you which door he would not choose, while the honestant would tell you which door he would choose. this question would be of no assistance in determining either who was who or which door was which.
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#19 atomjyd

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 01:18 AM

I'm assuming there's exactly one Swindlecant, and both know which is the freedom door.

Say freedom is behind door #1. Ask either guard the following question: "Which door would the other guard tell me leads to freedom?"

If you happened to ask the Honestant, he would truthfully tell you that the other guard (the Swindlecant) would tell you door #2 leads to freedom. If you happened to ask the Swindlecant, he would dishonestly tell you that the other guard (the Honestant) would tell you that door #2 leads to freedom.

So it doesn't matter which one you happen to ask. Since both guards are "involved" in the answer, either guard will tell you the other would say freedom is behind door #2. Therefore it is REALLY behind door #1.
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#20 Wordblind

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 01:25 AM


I think that the following part is misleading:
"he warned that one guard is a Swindlecant"
because that definitely means that there is one guard who is a swindlecant, but what about the other guard? To me, the other guard could easily be either a swindlecant or an honestant with the above phrase still being correct.



This was the same problem I ran into. If you note that both guards can be swindlecants or one of each then there is no single question that can solve this problem.



That's why I always liked the so-called Complicated Question. It doesn't matter if there is one guard or five. It doesn't matter if zero or all of them are Swindlecants. It doesn't matter if the person who told you about the Swindlecants is a Swindlecant himself.

I think the only reason that the Indirect Question seems more obvious to most people is because they assume they were given two guards for a reason.
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