[Izzy]

So I'm opening this up for discussion. Socrates and I have started debating a bit via the comment boxes in our profiles. I think it's pretty interesting, so anyone else's insight would be appreciated. Below is the conversation up to now.

Socrates: Amor Vincint Omnia

Izzy: Love something something? I'm no linguist, and a quick google search didn't result in anything.

Socrates: I do apologize for I am not the most adroit speller. Amor Vincit Omnia

Izzy: [it translates to "Love Conquers All"] Eh, debatable.

Socrates: My friend I think you might be a small cynic as I once was. Might I recommend a book entitled "The Alchemist."

Izzy: Well, I'm not saying humans as a race are cynical (let's ignore my narcissistic behavior ), just that there are things more powerful than love. Emotions can be altered, whether people believe so or not. More powerful than love is your mind and what you do with it.

Socrates: Ah yes but isn't love produced by the mind. Love as many may think is not just a romantic attraction. Any form of care can be construed as love. Lets say for instance you loose something very precious to you while you visit a foreign location. What if the three days later a random person shows up at your door with your lost item, telling you he flew down from his home just to return it? T

Izzy:That isn't love though. Because languages are man-made, emotions are exactly as we define them, and nothing else. Though I understand that what the man did was nice, it was neither love for the person, nor himself. Love for what is right perhaps, and... that's pretty good, but it doesn't conquer all. /Nothing/ "conquers" all. There is always something better than something else

Socrates: Ah how I do love an engaging debate! I do agree that languages are man-made as for means of communication, albeit I don't see how this assertion relates to emotions. These so called feelings are innate instincts which some may even contemplate encompass the human soul. Love in all forms is equal. The more compassion human beings show in everyday occurrences the closer we move to universal harmony. In this sense love can conquer all.

Izzy: Haha, what soul? Humans continue to feel love because natural selection has decided that it is important for our survival. Humans love each other so they're capable of staying with each other long enough to reproduce. Love is an illusion, created by our minds for specific reasons, and therefore isn't really that important. Again, love conquers nothing.

Thoughts? Comments? Sides?

[peace*out]

Love conquers hate. thats all for now!

[Izzy]

Love conquers hate. thats all for now!

In what sense? If I would say "I hate you", it would have much more of an affect (effect?) on you than its opposite. Love is better and more acceptable than hate, but that doesn't mean it conquers it. I dunno if they should even be compared in this way 'cos they're just antonyms.

[Guest]

A quick thought/s

Love - has different meanings by way if values to men and women. They have different priorities which affect their emotions. Could just be part of a courtship ritual that our complicated species require. Is it present in other species?

If love conquers all - can it defeat war? In a way I guess it does as 'most' of us are still here to prove it -so far. (make love not war)

Love is grand - till it's lost.

[unreality]

one picture sums it up ;D

On a more serious note, I'm more in agreeance with Socrates. I'm an atheist like Izzy, but she has reduced everything to its de-facto biological/physical existence. But when you think about it, our universe might not exist at all, and nothing is based in its own reality. It doesn't matter that we are made up of subatomic particles following discrete physical laws... it doesn't matter that we are made up of cells working together in design by evolution... what matters is what is represented. At the basic level, we could be made up of matrices of numbers, or pure energy. Who knows.

Like I said in that free-will topic I started a while ago, things are built upon other things. Complicated and unpredictable systems emerge and grow from simple rules. While you know exactly what a banana is, the atoms that make you up do not know what a banana is. So "the soul" may not physically exist, but it mentally exists. It exists as a representation built up of lesser things. More than the sum of its parts, so to speak.

So love doesn't actually exist in the physical world... but in the abstract world of meaning built upon our physical world of nomeaning, love exists as a force of attraction.

I have to go, so the second half of this post (on whether love conquers all, lol) will have to wait til after dinner ;D

[andromeda]

Socrates: My friend I think you might be a small cynic as I once was. Might I recommend a book entitled "The Alchemist."

Oh no... I can't stand Paolo Coelho's writing, I find his books extremely boring... (I read chapters)

To be honest I don't even know what "Love conquers all" means!

I guess I'm gonna have to read the book now <_<

Edited January 5, 2009 by andromeda