Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Heroes: Season 1

577 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Lol, nice! Actually, I already pegged you for Niki before that based on your stolid and fervent defense of GC to Hiro...;) In a lot of games where ppl aren't so forthcoming about their roles, behavior is a good indicator ;P.

except for my newbie baddie behavior :P

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Bb/Frost... not sure if you're aware of this, but under the current setup, Sylar has approximately a 31% chance of dying on Night 1 if Ted and Niki both choose to attack and targets are chosen randomly. That's not including Hiro's delayed kill, and assuming the saving roles act optimally and either save themselves or nobody at all.

You need the independent killer role with a specific target to be alive otherwise it changes the whole dynamic of the game. There's no reason for the heroes not to all come forward and claim their roles once Sylar is out of the picture. If Sylar is still in the game, heroes claiming roles will not only become a target for him, they narrow down the possibilities and make it easier for Sylar to find Claire.

Since each role is unique and we don't play with multiple or "vanilla" roles, it is very difficult for the Company(mafia) to remain undetected once the heroes come forward with all their roles. Sylar is the only thing that encourages them not to do this.

It's a great game idea and I had fun playing, but just thought you guys might want to take the above into consideration when working out the rules for the next one. :D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Correction: 38% chance. Forgot to factor in the event of Sylar attacking and picking Peter and having his kill ability reflected back onto himself.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Bb/Frost... not sure if you're aware of this, but under the current setup, Sylar has approximately a 31% chance of dying on Night 1 if Ted and Niki both choose to attack and targets are chosen randomly. That's not including Hiro's delayed kill, and assuming the saving roles act optimally and either save themselves or nobody at all.

You need the independent killer role with a specific target to be alive otherwise it changes the whole dynamic of the game. There's no reason for the heroes not to all come forward and claim their roles once Sylar is out of the picture. If Sylar is still in the game, heroes claiming roles will not only become a target for him, they narrow down the possibilities and make it easier for Sylar to find Claire.

Since each role is unique and we don't play with multiple or "vanilla" roles, it is very difficult for the Company(mafia) to remain undetected once the heroes come forward with all their roles. Sylar is the only thing that encourages them not to do this.

It's a great game idea and I had fun playing, but just thought you guys might want to take the above into consideration when working out the rules for the next one. :D

Plus, how in the heck can a hero get a double shot????? Plus everyone should have been logged in as anonymously to avoid any spying of profile instances. :excl:
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Bb/Frost... not sure if you're aware of this, but under the current setup, Sylar has approximately a 31% chance of dying on Night 1 if Ted and Niki both choose to attack and targets are chosen randomly. That's not including Hiro's delayed kill, and assuming the saving roles act optimally and either save themselves or nobody at all.

You need the independent killer role with a specific target to be alive otherwise it changes the whole dynamic of the game. There's no reason for the heroes not to all come forward and claim their roles once Sylar is out of the picture. If Sylar is still in the game, heroes claiming roles will not only become a target for him, they narrow down the possibilities and make it easier for Sylar to find Claire.

Since each role is unique and we don't play with multiple or "vanilla" roles, it is very difficult for the Company(mafia) to remain undetected once the heroes come forward with all their roles. Sylar is the only thing that encourages them not to do this.

It's a great game idea and I had fun playing, but just thought you guys might want to take the above into consideration when working out the rules for the next one. :D

Well, it's highly unlikely that either Niki or Ted or both will act on the first night. It would really be a bad move on their parts. (Same with Hiro, but it isn't so bad. As we can see, Hiro never got to make a kill because of his action on the first night. So it's really not a great idea for him to act on night 1)

That said... yeah, we figured that it may go down hill quickly for the company as soon as the first night was over. Not just b/c Sylar died, but because both Sylar and the Company's kills were botched on night one. Frankly, Peter and the Company should be Sylar's main worry on night one. I believe we have come up with an acceptable solution for this. For season 1.1- Once in the game, Sylar may take off for the night and will not be able to be killed, in exchange he will not be able to use any offensive or defensive abilities.

All in all, the odds are very much in Sylar's favor. Since Niki and Ted will doubtfully act on night one, and assuming that hiro does, there would be a 20something % chance of him dying on night one. However, he has the same odds of killing a healer role on night 1 and getting the ability to save himself every night from there on in addition to his normal kill.

Also, about the people coming out with their roles. This is not be a problem in Season 2. Matt's Dad will surely take care of that ;) . However, Season 1.1 doesn't offer anything to prevent this from happening. It shouldn't be a big deal though, because like I said, it will be tweaked. The Heroes will not be quite as strong, and the lynch will also be tweaked. (I don't want to give anything away).

Thank you for your observations though. They are very helpful and we will consider implementing something similar to the 'Matt's Dad' idea for 1.1 if we can make it fit. Season 1.1 will be much more balanced, and I hope to see you in the game :D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Oh and PT I was looking through and found the HUGE hint you gave when you were telling Y-San that Itachi made a call for his brother with the ;) face.

I also liked my huge "under the radar" drop. Now I'll have to examine every nuance of each post picking out hints and codes much like Russell Crowe's character in "A Beautiful Mind". :blink:

Correction: 38% chance. Forgot to factor in the event of Sylar attacking and picking Peter and having his kill ability reflected back onto himself.

Does that include random saving roles on the first night as well. I know i just picked a random person who could have easily been Sylar. I saved Niki that first night, but it was a random pick none the less.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Great ending Frost! :D But the heroes winning was much easier after Sylar died. Pity Itachi targeted Slick the first night. :P

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I also liked my huge "under the radar" drop. Now I'll have to examine every nuance of each post picking out hints and codes much like Russell Crowe's character in "A Beautiful Mind". :blink:

Yeah that was a nice one. If you do end up looking for codes... let me know if you find anything.

Does that include random saving roles on the first night as well. I know i just picked a random person who could have easily been Sylar. I saved Niki that first night, but it was a random pick none the less.

No, it was assuming that the saving roles acted optimally and saved themselves on Night 1, since the killers are choosing randomly you're just as likely to be chosen, and by saving yourself you're guaranteed to be saving an innocent and not risk the chance of saving a baddie.

Well, it's highly unlikely that either Niki or Ted or both will act on the first night. It would really be a bad move on their parts. (Same with Hiro, but it isn't so bad. As we can see, Hiro never got to make a kill because of his action on the first night. So it's really not a great idea for him to act on night 1)

I agree that Niki and Ted attacking blindly on night one is a bad move, but I disagree on it being highly unlikely. I was very impressed with the level of play in this game, and very surprised when Ted and Niki did not attack on Night 1. If you look back at previous mafia games, the Ninja/Seven/SWAT or whatever innocent-sided killing role there was has taken action at the first possible chance every time. If you look at the odds in this Heroes game, because both Claire and Ted can't be killed right away, the odds are actually slightly better in this game compared to previous mafias, though it is still more likely that you do harm rather than good. I give a lot of credit to Y-san and GC for being smart and not attacking.

However, if you take into consideration Sylar's ability to grow in power and gain a saving ability, simple probability may no longer be enough to calculate the risk vs reward of attacking night 1. It may actually be more beneficial to the heroes to kill a couple of their own for the chance at killing Sylar on Night 1 before he gains any powers. How do we weigh the killing of Sylar vs killing one of your own... I'll have to analyze this further.

I really like the sound of the "Matt's Dad" idea. :D Nice work guys!

Edited by Sinistral
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Also, about the people coming out with their roles. This is not be a problem in Season 2. Matt's Dad will surely take care of that ;) . However, Season 1.1 doesn't offer anything to prevent this from happening. It shouldn't be a big deal though, because like I said, it will be tweaked. The Heroes will not be quite as strong, and the lynch will also be tweaked. (I don't want to give anything away).

Thank you for your observations though. They are very helpful and we will consider implementing something similar to the 'Matt's Dad' idea for 1.1 if we can make it fit. Season 1.1 will be much more balanced, and I hope to see you in the game :D

Just had an idea for a season 1.1 modification: Molly

She was under control ofthe Company for much of season 1, so instead of having her be a Hero, she could be part of the Company. And if she knows both player and role, she can "find" a player anywhere - nullifying any saving roles (ok, that last part might be a bit of a stretch, but I think it could work).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Just had an idea for a season 1.1 modification: Molly

She was under control ofthe Company for much of season 1, so instead of having her be a Hero, she could be part of the Company. And if she knows both player and role, she can "find" a player anywhere - nullifying any saving roles (ok, that last part might be a bit of a stretch, but I think it could work).

She was??? I've been watching Season 1 and I've only seen her a couple times after Parkman found her and I haven't even seen her use her power at all yet.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

She was??? I've been watching Season 1 and I've only seen her a couple times after Parkman found her and I haven't even seen her use her power at all yet.

Well, we didn't meet her until Parkman found her, but she was the Company's "Secret Weapon" (or however it was they referred to her) up to that point.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Yeah I think putting Molly on the Company's side would help to even out the odds a bit. I think another cool thing for Hiro would be to almost give him a saving role and stop time to get a person to safety.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Thanks Frost and Bb! :D good game everyone! :)

I enjoyed the new roles alot :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

If you look back at previous mafia games, the Ninja/Seven/SWAT or whatever innocent-sided killing role there was has taken action at the first possible chance every time.

Keep in mind, that in all of those games the night to kill was specified. It was an issue of "use it or lose it for two nights" so there was always a heavy pressure to use it even when unsure. In this game it was specifically setup to eliminate the pressure and have the killing roles be able to act whenever they wanted and still attach a restriction. That way the pressure to act on a specific night is eliminated.

Just had an idea for a season 1.1 modification: Molly

She was under control ofthe Company for much of season 1, so instead of having her be a Hero, she could be part of the Company. And if she knows both player and role, she can "find" a player anywhere - nullifying any saving roles (ok, that last part might be a bit of a stretch, but I think it could work).

I really like this idea. It's slightly similar to 'Matt's Dad' but I don't really know quite yet how to make it work. Or even how to replace Molly's spot and who from the company would need to be eliminate to make room. Frost and I had discussed a role for Mikah in Season1, but it didn't add up to much more than voting manipulation like he did in the tv show.

Season 1.1 still has some time before it starts. We will continue to work on it and we really do appreciate all the suggestions so keep them coming!

Also, today I started thinking about a "Heroes Hybrid" game.

-Heroes Hybrid would take characters from the show and from the comic. It would establish a bunch of roles to kinda even the odds. The game would be divided into 3 teams. One team of baddies with BTSC, One team of Heroes with BTSC, and one group of people that are unspecified and without BTSC, but some of them belong to the Baddies an some to the Heroes. Everyone will be announced as being a Hero, a Baddie, or in the pool of other players. (Something like 5 vs 5or6 and 5 roles 'in the mix')

-The Heroes and the Baddies would know what roles were among them (b/c of the BTSC) and would therefore know which of their roles were in the mix of players. Every cycle, each team will get to PM the host and try and name one player+role in the mix to get them added into the BTSC circle. At the same time, each Cycle the players will act out their abilities as if they would in a night cycle. So a giant battle would ensue each cycle, just like 'night time' in a normal mafia game, which would be followed by a Post exlaining what happened.

-In the mix there may also be a couple roles that could be added to either side if identified correctly, and they would be added depending on which team could guess it first (like molly).

-The Heroes and Baddies will be balanced in a unique way. The baddies, by nature, will have more powerful, or just generally more numbers, of killers on their team. The heroes will have more information roles and a few killers. The Baddies will have more of the redirect and nullifier roles, and the Heroes side would have more saving roles.

-Each side will know what people are on the other team, but they will not know which roles, nor will they know which of the other team's roles are in the mix. So targeting people in the mix is risky b/c they may kill their own or save a member of the other team. But at the same time, some the people in the mix will be on the other team and will be attacking the confirmed opposite side.

-So it turns into a game of strategy, logical deduction, and some luck. I'm not sure what to expect.

Please let me know what you all think. Could this thing actually work?

Edited by Brandonb
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I love it, I was actually thinking about the three team thing (not as in depth as you have) when I was watching heroes on Monday. The question is, what happens when a player is guessed wrong?

Edit: And I have this sneaking suspicion that I'll end up on the mix team and once again have to prove myself :P

Edited by Impervious
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Not that anyone has to take my request but..can the next heros game be after ABR3? Since the players will be the same, or was that the characters only?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Not that anyone has to take my request but..can the next heros game be after ABR3? Since the players will be the same, or was that the characters only?

i think characters only

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The question is, what happens when a player is guessed wrong?

Well, this is all theoretical right now. But if someone is guessed incorrectly then there is no recruitment for the team during that cycle. The person that was guessed still remains outside of the BTSC loop. And even if they are guessed correctly, the player would still be considered part of the mix group. The other team and the other members of the mix wouldn't know that one of them had been "drafted." Of course, the person that gets drafted will then have the same win condition as the drafting team (if they didn't already). Remember, they would have to match the correct person with the correct role. There's really no reason for them to kill the person if the guess incorrectly.

I'm also thinking that there may be 5 people in the mix group: 3 that can go to either team (lets call them gray), and then 2 that are specific for one team and the other (lets call them black and white). If I make this thing happen I'm thinking that the gray people would probably be Sylar, Molly, and Isaac or a certain comic character. Then the other two would be random, one from each team.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Not that anyone has to take my request but..can the next heros game be after ABR3? Since the players will be the same, or was that the characters only?

The characters would be the same. Besides, 1.1 will not be for a while. Probably at least two weeks or more.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Wow that sounds really cool! I'd play it, but maybe not until a couple other things end *cough*Cruiseshipmaifaanimebattleroyalefour*cough*

:D

~Kat

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Wow that sounds really cool! I'd play it, but maybe not until a couple other things end *cough*Cruiseshipmaifaanimebattleroyalefour*cough*

:D

~Kat

Yeah, 1.1 will definitely be after those. BB and I just finished working out most of the details, and it looks great! :D Some roles are the same, some have great new abilities, some have lost abilities, all to make it much more fair and much more awesome. Trust me, all the role-revealing last game? Not gonna happen in this one. :P

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Wow that sounds really cool! I'd play it, but maybe not until a couple other things end *cough*Cruiseshipmaifaanimebattleroyalefour*cough*

:D

~Kat

Thanks. If I were to make the Heroes Hybrid game it would be a while before I started it. Not until after alot of the current stuff has ended, and probably after Season 1.1. I just wanted to put the idea out there for now.

Edit: But right now, Season 1.1 is what it's all about. Sylar has been tweaked, the Heroes have been tweaked, and the company... :ph34r: They will be feared this time :excl:

Edited by Brandonb
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

That said... yeah, we figured that it may go down hill quickly for the company as soon as the first night was over. Not just b/c Sylar died, but because both Sylar and the Company's kills were botched on night one.

Lol...you mean b/c I was Ted. :P

I do like your idea for the team game...sounds like a coalitions game...;P

The people in gray could definitely do some serious damage by acting as double-agents, i.e. pretending to be on one side while working for the other...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Lol...you mean b/c I was Ted. :P

I do like your idea for the team game...sounds like a coalitions game...;P

The people in gray could definitely do some serious damage by acting as double-agents, i.e. pretending to be on one side while working for the other...

From what it sounds like though, they're either going to be one of the other...Is that right? Just depending on who "recruits" them first?

Off topic: Y-San? Have you gotten any of my PM's about Death Note Mafia...You've never replied?? o_O

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

From what it sounds like though, they're either going to be one of the other...Is that right? Just depending on who "recruits" them first?

Right^, and Right^, and Right^^ (for Ysan)

There will be 5 "gray" players, but in reality only 3 of them will be truly gray while 1 is white (can only be recruited by one particular side) and one is black (can only be recruited by the other particular side). The 3 truly gray will go to whichever team can successfully recruit them first. That said... those players will never be confirmed as having been recruited. Through the entire game they will remain, on the surface, as a permanent part of the mix group, even after they gain BTSC with whoever recruits them. That ambiguity will leave open the possibility for people in the mix/gray playing as double agents. In particular, the 1white and 1black player that are already assigned to a side.

From what I can imagine, it would be very difficult to pull off a double-agent act (but not impossible). B/C in the thread a gray player would have to be recruited by one team, then voice support for other team, and then attack the team the were supporting. No information could be gained from the opposing team, b/c the gray player would only have BTSC with the team that recruited him/her. Maybe one or two very clever players could figure out a way to do this successfully, but I don't see how it can be done without the opposing side figuring it out and seeking revenge soon after the betrayal.

I don't really want to speculate any deeper on the strategical ideas that I have been considering. I would rather just see what other people come up with when/if I start this thing in a few weeks. :)

In the mean time... Season 1.1 is coming soon! I don't know how soon... maybe not that soon... heck, the way I see it, there's really no way for it to be soon enough! :P

And I just want to thank everyone for playing! I hope to see you all again in 1.1!

Edited by Brandonb
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.