[soop]

Paris, December 1847

It had been some time since I had last seen my friend Monseiur Dupin, for whom I have deep regard, as he is one of the most fascinating people I have the fortune to have made my aquantance. Upon opening the letter, I was greeted with a brief missive:

My Dear F_____

Please do me the honour of accompanying me upon a most intriguing enterprise. Arrangements have been made, we are to spend the evening of the 12th and 13th at la hotel du vin de la montparnasse in Bievres. Am looking forward to seeing you.

Fondest regards

M. Dupin

I received the letter on the 7th, and so made my arrangements for the next week.

Upon my arrival, I was greeted by my friend in the drawing room of the hotel.

"My dearest F_____!" began Dupin, standing to greet me "sit please. Have you eaten? Your journey was pleasant I trust?"

As soon as the formalities were out of the way, and we had caught up on the last two years of each others lives, I set to business.

"look here my friend, you have dragged me here into the middle of no-where on nothing but a premise. I must press you to enlighten me as to the substance of the task at hand." Dupin nodded his head, and reclined into his chair, thoughtfully drawing on his pipe. He said; "A curse Monseiur."

I absolutely lept out of my skin. "Monsieur you don't mean to say -"

"Calm yourself mon amis" said Dupin, leaning forward in a conspiritorial way. "Non, you misunderstand. Last week, Madamme Tolliver, a local widow was the third member of her family within a year to pass away under similar circumstances. It has been reported as a curse, the locals being but simple peasants - but the metropolitan police have been involved and they are at their wits end. The official verdict is that the three deceased members of the family were frightened to death."

"Good lord" I muttered "This sounds like an absolutely ghastly way to spend the weekend."

"No matter Monseiur. There is no such thing as a curse, as I will prove to you. Without a doubt the hand of man is involved in some way."

The night finished (on no less a pleasant note) and we retired to bed with me up half the night quaking with night phantoms. However in the light of the morning sun, everything seemed to be right again, and after breakfast we journeyed to the nearby farmhouse to call upon the last surviving family member, the widows daughter, Antoinette. Here we heard the following facts:

O Nearly a year ago, Antionettes brother Joseph had fallen violently ill with a fever and become bedridden. His mother and sister cared for him, but his health declined, and finally he passed away.

O Without Joseph, the household had almost no income, and the widows sister had been called to stay. She had gradually fallen ill and passed away almost 6 months ago, with the same symptoms developed by Joseph towards the end of his illness.

O The widow, already worn out by emotion and the care of her sister and son, succumbed to the illness, and passed away.

O The estate had been left to Antionette and Joseph and Antionette now planned to sell up and move away to a place of happier memories.

O The victims all died with symptoms of violent spasms and a ghostly pallor.

As we sat around the kitchen table, Antionette poured us some tea, when Dupin suddenly inquired "Madame, the medicine you gave to Joseph - may I examine it?"

"But of course" said Antionette looking puzzled "- but it can have no link, as Maman and Aunt Jeannette never took this medicine."

"Ah." exclaimed Dupin, uncorking and sniffing the bottle. He then put it to his mouth, and tilted it.

"Madame" said Dupin, just as I was sipping my tea "we must thank you for your hospitality, you have been most gracious. And now, we must attend. Monseiur." he said turning to me. He handed me my hat and coat and we were off.

"Monseiur! I do protest" said I, once we were out of earshot. "All this coming and going - I do declare!"

"We have no reason to stay. I have solved everything. There is no curse mon amis, it is murder, pure and simple, and I know who the murderer is."

I have left out the last part of the story for you to guess the answer, which I'll post either tomorrow or later today. TBH, I think it's kind of subjective, so I'd be surprised if anyone gets it.

Edited August 27, 2008 by soop

[Guest]

Paris, December 1847

Its Antionette who is the murder and has given some kind of slow poison to all of them Joseph in medicine and others may be in form of food or drinks as Dupin doesn't drink or let his friend drink anything there.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Shweta Sharma

[soop]

That's pretty good actually. Part of it is right, but there's a bit more to it.

[Guest]

I think..... Joseph and Antoinette are the poisoners as they plan to move away together they poisoned their relatives in order to get the house. The medicine that Antoinette gave to Joseph was an antidote to the poison and made him better but he faked his death but it was not given to the other relatives and so they died.

[soop]

I think..... Joseph and Antoinette are the poisoners as they plan to move away together they poisoned their relatives in order to get the house. The medicine that Antoinette gave to Joseph was an antidote to the poison and made him better but he faked his death but it was not given to the other relatives and so they died.

Good, but nope.

[Guest]

I have some thoughts, but I'm not there yet:

1. If the brother, mother and aunt all had the same disease, why did Antionette only give her brother the medicine?

2. The OP says that Joseph started by "falling violently ill," but it only says the aunt had gradually fallen ill, only developing the same symptoms towards the end. Those sound like they might have different causes

3. The whole story is based on Antionette's word. Can anyone (ie the police) verify how the deaths occurred?

4. If the medicine was poison, why would she so readily give it up? What did Dupin expect to learn by tasting it?

4a. On that note, does he actually taste it? What would he have to gain by pretending to taste it?

5. How did Dupin even know she gave Joseph medicine?

6. If the estate was originally left to Joseph and Antoinette, why would she bother killing the aunt?

My theory is that the poisoner is someone who wants to buy the house on the cheap, and figures Antionette will sell for cheap if her whole family is dead (especially if there is a curse rumor, which means no one else will try to buy it).

[soop]

I have some thoughts, but I'm not there yet:

1. If the brother, mother and aunt all had the same disease, why did Antionette only give her brother the medicine?

2. The OP says that Joseph started by "falling violently ill," but it only says the aunt had gradually fallen ill, only developing the same symptoms towards the end. Those sound like they might have different causes

3. The whole story is based on Antionette's word. Can anyone (ie the police) verify how the deaths occurred?

4. If the medicine was poison, why would she so readily give it up? What did Dupin expect to learn by tasting it?

4a. On that note, does he actually taste it? What would he have to gain by pretending to taste it?

5. How did Dupin even know she gave Joseph medicine?

6. If the estate was originally left to Joseph and Antoinette, why would she bother killing the aunt?

My theory is that the poisoner is someone who wants to buy the house on the cheap, and figures Antionette will sell for cheap if her whole family is dead (especially if there is a curse rumor, which means no one else will try to buy it).

EXCELLENT reasoning. Here are your answers:

1. If the brother, mother and aunt all had the same disease, why did Antionette only give her brother the medicine?

I should have perhaps accentuated the fact that he had a fever, was bed-ridden, then the symptoms changed

2. The OP says that Joseph started by "falling violently ill," but it only says the aunt had gradually fallen ill, only developing the same symptoms towards the end. Those sound like they might have different causes

Yep, this is an important point

3. The whole story is based on Antionette's word. Can anyone (ie the police) verify how the deaths occurred?

It happened over a long period of time, so imagine that many people were witnessing the "curse". Also, one of the reasons for basing it in 184x is because it's kind of before the kind of pathalogical advances that would help it along today.

4. If the medicine was poison, why would she so readily give it up? What did Dupin expect to learn by tasting it?

This is an important point, which I didn't want to over-do. But what might you expect when you taste medicine?

4a. On that note, does he actually taste it? What would he have to gain by pretending to taste it?

He does taste it

5. How did Dupin even know she gave Joseph medicine?

I guess I'm just taking it for granted that there would be an internally taken medicine used for fever.

6. If the estate was originally left to Joseph and Antoinette, why would she bother killing the aunt?

Also important.

[Guest]

Perhaps the medicine was like a placebo--no actual medicinal usage so whatever it was that killed Joseph attacked quickly without hindrance.

Now, there have been cases of diseased animals rapidly dying, and then their predators slowly dying, and so on. If some animal was fed part (or all) of Joseph, or somehow whatever contaminated him wound up in food, Antoinette would simply have to feed that food to the others and they would gradually fall ill.

Either that or arsenic, and she used too much on Joseph before getting the right 'dosage' for the others.

[soop]

Perhaps the medicine was like a placebo--no actual medicinal usage so whatever it was that killed Joseph attacked quickly without hindrance.

Now, there have been cases of diseased animals rapidly dying, and then their predators slowly dying, and so on. If some animal was fed part (or all) of Joseph, or somehow whatever contaminated him wound up in food, Antoinette would simply have to feed that food to the others and they would gradually fall ill.

Either that or arsenic, and she used too much on Joseph before getting the right 'dosage' for the others.

You also have part of the solution.

[Guest]

I don't suppose you get to tell me which part is correct...I'm still confused over Dupin's reaction to the 'medicine', and what (if anything) caused the ghostly pallor that makes them believe in the curse...

[soop]

I don't suppose you get to tell me which part is correct...I'm still confused over Dupin's reaction to the 'medicine', and what (if anything) caused the ghostly pallor that makes them believe in the curse...

If you understood that, you'd be very close to the solution.

[Guest]

That it was arsenic poisoning.

It is possible that there is arsenic is in the water and in the medicine she gave to her brother. That way he got sick faster as he had a much higher dose than his aunt or mother. Arsenic could be responsible for the colour of the skin and the spasms. It could also be the reason why he insisted they leave before drinking the tea, it doesn't mention her drinking it, just pouring it for them and there would be the same water with arsenic used to make it as would have been drank by the family.

[soop]

That it was arsenic poisoning.

It is possible that there is arsenic is in the water and in the medicine she gave to her brother. That way he got sick faster as he had a much higher dose than his aunt or mother. Arsenic could be responsible for the colour of the skin and the spasms. It could also be the reason why he insisted they leave before drinking the tea, it doesn't mention her drinking it, just pouring it for them and there would be the same water with arsenic used to make it as would have been drank by the family.

Very good. You're right on several points, but not the whole mystery.

[DetroitMike]

My first post ever, so I'll try my best at the spoiler tag.

]Is the doctor the murderer? His reason being the motive already mentioned (buying the place on the cheap.) If Antoinette asked for medicine it must've come from him: it's not like she's a pharmacist or ran down to the local Walgreens. So he gave her a placebo (perhaps just water due to Dupin's reaction.) She didn't administer it to the others when it didn't seem to help (or it actually just made things worse for Joseph,) and I'm sure the doctor had access to all 3 patients near their end, perhaps even alone to spare the others the horror of their final moments, at which point he suffocated them under a pillow as they screamed, dying with mouths agape in a horrific fashion. Am I in the ballpark at all?

[soop]

My first post ever, so I'll try my best at the spoiler tag.

]Is the doctor the murderer? His reason being the motive already mentioned (buying the place on the cheap.) If Antoinette asked for medicine it must've come from him: it's not like she's a pharmacist or ran down to the local Walgreens. So he gave her a placebo (perhaps just water due to Dupin's reaction.) She didn't administer it to the others when it didn't seem to help (or it actually just made things worse for Joseph,) and I'm sure the doctor had access to all 3 patients near their end, perhaps even alone to spare the others the horror of their final moments, at which point he suffocated them under a pillow as they screamed, dying with mouths agape in a horrific fashion. Am I in the ballpark at all?

Unfortunately not - had such a person been involved, I would have made sure to mention them. While it was off-target, though, it is a good answer - shows you're thinking

Edited August 27, 2008 by soop

[Guest]

Very good. You're right on several points, but not the whole mystery.

There are two general scenarios I've been playing with, but each has some problems:

1. Someone was specifically and intentionally poisoning each family member in succession. The question that raises, though, is why someone would choose those victims, and in that order. Antionette had nothing to gain from the aunt dying, as she was not in the will. Someone looking to buy the house cheaply would have probably killed the mother before the brother, to see if the children would sell out of grief.

2. Someone intentionally found a way to poison the whole household (ie poisoned water supply). This explains why the aunt died after she moved in, although there's no obvious motivation. The two problems with this are that (a), the poisoning affected different people at different times over the course of a year, and (b) Antionette was not affected.

I'm generally not happy with the idea that Antionette poisoned the family, because she has little to gain (how much will she able able to sell a "cursed" old farm house for?).

My theory is that someone poisoned all the alcohol in the house, probably with arsenic. The brother got sick (from an unrelated infection) and started taking some booze as medicine (which was common in the 1840s). The poisoned liquor slowly killed him, even though he would have eventually recovered from the infection.

The aunt was a secret alcoholic, so when she moved in she started raiding their liquor supply, and eventually was poisoned and died. The mother, who did not drink normally, was stricken with grief and began drinking as well. Antoinette, though, was not a drinker, so did not get sick.

There are two problems with this theory: (a) why would the house have booze in it if no one drank (the brother and mother lived there, but did not start drinking until circumstances led them); and (b) why would someone poison the booze if they knew no one drank?

I think I can solve those objections in one answer: it was the widow's husband who drank, and whoever poisoned his liquor did it to kill him. He also died of arsenic poisoning years ago, and his liquor sat around waiting for someone to be foolish enough to get drunk.

When Dupin tasted the medicine and realized it was liquor (he maybe also tasted the arsenic), he deduced all of this. So who poisoned the liquor? Just someone who had a grudge against the Antionette's father for whatever reason. The brother, mother and aunt were just collateral damage.

Whew, I should make a movie out of that story.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Chuck Rampart

[Guest]

Joseph was murdered because Antoinette did not want to share the property with him. This could have been done using arsenic.

The next major question is--were the other deaths primary in satisfying the cause? Or were they even intentional?

When the D.C. sniper was on the loose, I had a theory that he was targeting 1 specific person, but by killing others in similar fashion, it would appear random. Perhaps only one person (i.e. Joseph) was the target of the murder, but the death of the mother and the aunt allow the 'curse' theory to exist.

Also, I find it notable that the mother and Antoinette took care of Joseph when he was ill. This raises the question of them being in cahoots or difficulties Antoinette may encounter while trying to kill Joseph without being caught

[Guest]

I just read your posts, CR...great stuff, but arsenic is tasteless, odorless, colorless, undetectable without chemical testing (or looking at the corpse for the body). What if it wasn't arsenic, but maybe something like mercury...in fact...

The water supply or some other beverage was poisoned with some detectable element, but that element could be partially hidden by adding flavor (i.e. tea). However, the trained tongue of Dupin caught on to the hint of the poison.

Joseph was the primary source of income, which means he was the laborer. Thus, he needed to consume more food and drink more fluids than the others. More intake=faster results.

Perhaps whatever was used to kill him still had an ample supply, but used at regular rations, took much longer to kill the aunt and the widow.

And another random thought: The poison was in the medicine, killed Joseph, he gets buried, body breaks down, poison goes into groundwater, winds up in well and drank by aunt and mother. But that damn timing element...Why six months? Maybe something with seasons/tides/lunar positions...

[soop]

good work, I'm off - answers tomorrow?

And good work chuck. you're the most likely to get it with that thinking.

[soop]

Hey, posting fom my phone. Just thought I'd add, no-one has it yet, but the main thing is, I'm surprised that many of you have bought up very important observations. If there's a particular point which makes you think "but why?!", it's important.

Edited August 27, 2008 by soop

[Guest]

Hey, posting fom my phone. Just thought I'd add, no-one has it yet, but the main thing is, I'm surprised that many of you have bought up very important observations. If there's a particular point which makes you think "but why?!", it's important.

How did Dupin conclude that "the hand of man" was involved before he went to the house?

Did he just recognize the descriptions of the victims' symptoms as poisoning?

I'm also still struggling with what Dupin could have gained from tasting the medicine. I like the idea that it was just liquor, and by tasting it he put together under what circumstances each of the victims would be drinking.

[soop]

Dupin was just sceptical about unscientific explanations, that's why he decided "the hand of man" was involved. I haven't used the letter R until just now in this post.

[DetroitMike]

I’m going to try to take another, more logical stab at this one.

The family is being slowly poisoned by arsenic. The source of the poison is arsine gas being released from Joseph’s bedroom. “Paris Green” or “Emerald Green” was a popular paint color in the 19th century, and is an arsenic-derived compound. As it degrades, it releases toxic arsine gas. Another possible source is the same compound being used as a pigment in wallpapering.

When Joseph fell ill, his death sentence was the fact that he was bedridden. He stayed in the “poison room” until he finally succumbed. It would make sense, then, that when the Aunt moved in she would move into Joseph’s vacated room, and she suffered the same fate. This would also account for the long gaps in time between deaths as the poison slowly took its course.

The mother, all the while, was spending a huge amount of time in this room taking care of the son and aunt, and suffered from the poisoning as well as the paint/wallpaper further degraded releasing more and more arsine gas.

Why not Antionette then? Well, when the aunt went ill, it’s logical to think—since the aunt came to support them as they had no money—Antionette was forced to find work and spent less time in the house, sparing her of the poison.

How did Dupin figure it out? First, the tea: the arsine gas coming from Joseph’s bedroom was everywhere in the house. When arsine gas is heated up, as when Antionette made the tea, it smells of garlic, which Dupin picked up on.

Finally, what wouldn’t have such high levels of arsenic in it? The corked medicine that hadn’t been used since Joseph first got sick over a year ago. Dupin cleverly used that as the untainted, unpoisoned “control” by smelling it and tasting it and noticing the absence of arsenic in the corked bottle (and, yes—some people can detect the taste of arsenic. I’m assuming someone like Dupin would be as gifted.) That is why Dupin rushed out of the house: the only hole in my story is why he didn’t bring Antionette with them, unless he’s just a jerk.

[Guest]

I’m going to try to take another, more logical stab at this one.

The family is being slowly poisoned by arsenic. The source of the poison is arsine gas being released from Joseph’s bedroom. “Paris Green” or “Emerald Green” was a popular paint color in the 19th century, and is an arsenic-derived compound. As it degrades, it releases toxic arsine gas. Another possible source is the same compound being used as a pigment in wallpapering.

When Joseph fell ill, his death sentence was the fact that he was bedridden. He stayed in the “poison room” until he finally succumbed. It would make sense, then, that when the Aunt moved in she would move into Joseph’s vacated room, and she suffered the same fate. This would also account for the long gaps in time between deaths as the poison slowly took its course.

The mother, all the while, was spending a huge amount of time in this room taking care of the son and aunt, and suffered from the poisoning as well as the paint/wallpaper further degraded releasing more and more arsine gas.

Why not Antionette then? Well, when the aunt went ill, it’s logical to think—since the aunt came to support them as they had no money—Antionette was forced to find work and spent less time in the house, sparing her of the poison.

How did Dupin figure it out? First, the tea: the arsine gas coming from Joseph’s bedroom was everywhere in the house. When arsine gas is heated up, as when Antionette made the tea, it smells of garlic, which Dupin picked up on.

Finally, what wouldn’t have such high levels of arsenic in it? The corked medicine that hadn’t been used since Joseph first got sick over a year ago. Dupin cleverly used that as the untainted, unpoisoned “control” by smelling it and tasting it and noticing the absence of arsenic in the corked bottle (and, yes—some people can detect the taste of arsenic. I’m assuming someone like Dupin would be as gifted.) That is why Dupin rushed out of the house: the only hole in my story is why he didn’t bring Antionette with them, unless he’s just a jerk.

I like it. I like it a lot.

[soop]

very clever! but, unfortunately, incorrect. there is after all a murderer, is there not?

[Guest]

I am considering a few points:

1. If Antoinette was poisoning everyone with food, water, etc. it would have taken a long time and would lead people to suspect her if she was not eating the same food for eg.

2. M. Dupin tasted the medicine and knew something. If there was something added to it, he would not be able to tell by simply tasting it, so it had to have a distinct taste, maybe it was not medicine at all.

3. The order of people dying also seems important...why Joseph first?Is it because he might have been the first to suspect fowl play and do something about it? The more reason for killing him quickly.