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Life and its struggle!

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life is a struggle, defeat or victory is in the hands of god, but struggle itself is the meaning of life. - Aga Khan 4. Can we discuss this please!

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God controls our life, He gave us life, He IS life!

Throughout our lives God gives us struggles - That's life! Without struggle (which itself is imaginable), would not be life. Without victories from hardships and overcoming obstacles, there is no joy. Struggles do not even have to big large problems, even if you are happy because you didn't bite your nails today, you overcame a STRUGGLE! You overcame the struggle of getting rid of a bad habit. Life without struggle, is life without joy. Life without joy, is hardly life at all. That is why God created struggles for us, ones that are minor and ones that are major, but either way, God decides wether we win or not, if we give into temptation and "bite our nails," God has let us give into temptation, because maybe that is His plan.

Your quote is very true, and I hope that you understand that as well.

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Wrong forum.
why? is there a philosophical forum of which I'm not aware?

I like this quote.

it goes along with my philosophy on the meaning of life....which would not apply for atheists, but may be some people who believe in the afterlife would find useful.

I think I know the meaning of life.

without getting too much into it now, the answer is simply "experience."

more later.

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why? is there a philosophical forum of which I'm not aware?

The thread was moved to this forum from another.

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The meaning of life is the continued existence of life.
I think there's a distinction between the meaning of life and the definition of life.

Like I said, mine description only works if you believe in the afterlife.

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Some one once said "never take life seriously - you'll never get out of it alive".

Anybody remember who? - I think it was a comedian.

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Life is. Life is not.

Life is how we decide to rot.

Life is very new. Life is very old.

Life isn't anything without death that is cold.

Life isn't life without something to compare it to. Death is what life ends with. Without death, we would never fully live.

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Who wants the struggles? Who needs it? I do not ...

Ah, but how boring would life be without struggles? It's the fact that one day is never the same as another that I enjoy life so much! :D

<(^-^)>

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Interesting topic for many. However, no one can prove that life has a meaning, any more than a ghost existence.

One may believe what one wishes. Perhaps that struggle is just a concept. I have seen a lot of people who don't struggle in life.

Life itself may not have an answer, until the very end. ;)

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MAybe life's 'meaning' is to live and make the world a nice place so others can do their share...maybe its just about hope and love and happiness that we have, and mabye if there is a heaven (if you believe in that) or a hell, it's about doing good, and karma so you can do even more in your next life. OVer all, i think life is something different for each and every person.

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Life is a riddle that no one can solve, and by the time you have all the clues your time has passed...

Thats my thought for the day :)

Have fun pondering life's meaning, I got to go ponder my french...

Edited by Silverheart

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Ah, but how boring would life be without struggles? It's the fact that one day is never the same as another that I enjoy life so much! :D

<(^-^)>

Do you think God has boring life with no struggle? Never....

God is so happy without struggles.. I too want to be like that.. :)

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Do you think God has boring life with no struggle? Never....

God is so happy without struggles.. I too want to be like that.. :)

But, god also has the power to snap his fingers and make the entire world implode/flood

I'd deal with my struggles for that :D

(...not really)

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Do you think God has boring life with no struggle? Never....

God is so happy without struggles.. I too want to be like that.. :)

How do you know God is happy? Does god have a brain, because last time I checked, happiness was a combination of neurotransmitters in the hypothalamus ;D Honestly you can't define "happiness" for a supernatural being with no physical counterpart because:

(a) they don't actually exist, and/or

(b) they wouldn't experience human emotions as we know them

When we achieve what our brain considers to be success, certain chemicals are fired down the spinal cord and in the brain as well as in the bloodstream (via the adrenal glands). Our energy is replenished and we feel satisfied and accomplished. This is a direct result of "succeeding", which requires some sort of challenge. Succeeding is a primal instinct which has evolved over millions of years to drive our need for survival

So, at least for normal humans, success = happiness, and the more struggle, the more failure, but also the more success. They go hand-in-hand :D

^ biological perspective

v philosophical perspective

Some people say "you can't feel happiness without sadness", etc, basically saying that to measure "good" you need something "bad" to compare it to. This is utter BS ;D You can taste an excellent creme brulee (accent marks omitted :P) and enjoy without ever having a creme brulee before. This is kind of a flawed example (because you may have had other similar but BAD desserts) but I think you get my point. I'm saying that "success from overcoming struggles" isn't the ONLY conduit of happiness, but is a big one, and I think to have a meaningful life you have to rise and succeed and feel good about yourself doing it. Maybe that's just some Americanism but I think it's an integral part of life :D So struggle is definitely part of the picture

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But, god also has the power to snap his fingers and make the entire world implode/flood

I'd deal with my struggles for that :D

(...not really)

I do not think God will really hurt me :D

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When we achieve what our brain considers to be success, certain chemicals are fired down the spinal cord and in the brain as well as in the bloodstream (via the adrenal glands). Our energy is replenished and we feel satisfied and accomplished. This is a direct result of "succeeding", which requires some sort of challenge. Succeeding is a primal instinct which has evolved over millions of years to drive our need for survival

So, at least for normal humans, success = happiness, and the more struggle, the more failure, but also the more success. They go hand-in-hand :D

Some people say "you can't feel happiness without sadness", etc, basically saying that to measure "good" you need something "bad" to compare it to. This is utter BS ;D You can taste an excellent creme brulee (accent marks omitted :P ) and enjoy without ever having a creme brulee before. This is kind of a flawed example (because you may have had other similar but BAD desserts) but I think you get my point. I'm saying that "success from overcoming struggles" isn't the ONLY conduit of happiness, but is a big one, and I think to have a meaningful life you have to rise and succeed and feel good about yourself doing it. Maybe that's just some Americanism but I think it's an integral part of life :D So struggle is definitely part of the picture

I'd like to argue the case for the "you can't feel happiness without sadness" view.

Happiness is nature's dangling carrot. It motivates us. That's its purpose. But like any reward, a constant supply means you cease to be motivated. It needs to be elusive. So whatever we do to attain happiness will not bring us lasting happiness. Contentment, or a regular dose of happiness is the best you can hope for. We can no more be continually happy than a drug addict can be continually high. Sooner or later you have to come down, our brain chemistry demands it. That's because happiness is not a motivated state, it is just a reward, the prospect of which motivates us.

If it were ever possible to create genuine emotions in an artificial intelligence, surely the kindest thing to do would be to programme them to be blissfully happy all the time. Of course, they wouldn't do anything, just sit there on virtual cloud 9. But think of all the happiness you'd be bringing into the world! We could mass-produce happiness engines that simply exist in a state of perpetual bliss. If we had it in our power to create such (completely useless) things, wouldn't we be morally obliged to do so?

Being continually sad, on the other hand, is possible (ie. depression). You could think of sadness as being a motivated state, in the sense that it encourages us to make changes, perhaps extreme ones. Since it is possible to be depressed you could think of other conditions as being relatively happy states overall, which they are, but only up to a point.

Which brings us to struggle. Life without struggle would perhaps give us contentment (an acceptable stable state), where struggle is a rollercoaster of highs and lows. Not necessarily a worse state overall, but the lows are a prerequisite for the highs.

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I do not think God will really hurt me :D
God can't resist that one. I'd be extra careful looking both ways next time you cross the street if I were you. And definitely don't go out in thunderstorms.

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@ post 24

Evolutionarily, you're right - that's the purpose of happiness. But also products of evolution are our intelligent minds, allowing us to think. We can achieve happiness in many ways now

Think of sex. Its purpose is to reproduce. Yet, to bring about these actions, it gives intense happiness as a reward. But it doesn't discriminate: If you have sex using a condom or other form of birth control, you still get the 'reward'. In other words, the original purpose of the evolved state misfired. Kind of like how a moth using the moon for navigation ends up dying from flying into a man-made lightbulb.

Because we are intelligent and aware of our own actions and can make smart judgements (though oftentimes we don't :P), getting end results with different means, or even vice versa

As I said in the post you quoted, it's a mix of everything. Your point is a good one but "sadness" isn't part of the picture. Back to my creme brulee example:

no creme brulee (neutral state)

eat creme brulee -> mmm, tastes good (happiness)

Why things taste good is another matter, and because a creme brulee probably isn't healthy for you, this is another evolutionary misfiring ;D Anyway, your body at least thinks it wants you to eat creme brulee, so rewards you with happiness to motivate you to eat the rest of it.

This is your model, and mine too :) Happiness is definitely a motivator. But it doesn't require sadness, unless the "neutral state" of not having creme brulee is actually sadness. Or maybe cuz after you're done eating it, you feel sad :P Hehe. As I said, struggle is definitely part of life, and happiness and sadness OFTEN go hand in hand, but my point was that it's not ALWAYS that way

Edited by unreality

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