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# Sack

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A poor farmer went to the market to sell some peas and lentils. However, as he had only one sack and didn't want to mix peas and lentils, he poured in the peas first, tied the sack in the middle, and then filled the top portion of the sack with the lentils. At the market a rich innkeeper happened by with his own sack. He wanted to buy the peas, but he did not want the lentils.

Pouring the seed anywhere else but the sacks is considered soiling. Trading sacks is not allowed. The farmer can’t cut a hole in his sack.

How would you transfer the peas to the innkeeper’s sack, which he wants to keep, without soiling the produce?

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Sack - solution

Pour the lentils into the innkeeper’s sack, bind it and turn inside out. Pour in the peas. Then unbind the sack a pour the lentils back to your sack.

A poor farmer went to a market to sell some peas and lentils, however as he had only one sack and didn't want to mix peas and lentils, he poured in the peas at first, bound the sack up and than poured in the lentils. At the market a rich innkeeper wanted to buy the peas, but he did not want the lentils.

How would you solve this problem if you had only the sack of the innkeeper, which he wants to keep (without devaluing the goods).

Edit: Pouring the goods anywhere else than in sacks (eg. on the ground, table etc.) is considered as devaluing. Trading sacks is not allowed.

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• 2 months later...
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or the easier way would just to unbind the part of the sack the had the lentils and pour them into the innkeepers sack. then trade sacks, and your done. the first solution is too confusing and complicated i think. also the peas never leave the bag so its impossible for them to be devalued since they are still in original packaging.

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• 2 weeks later...

Logical answer, but some people are too attached to their sacks, who will surely appreciate the above solution...

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• 2 weeks later...

I would bind the top of part of my sack (holding the lentils), then flip the sack over and cut open the bottom. Then I'd pour the peas into the innkeeper's sack.

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• 1 month later...

How would you unbind the innkeepers sack that holds the lentils and peas without reaching through the peas to unbind the lentils? Wouldn't reaching through the peas be devaluing them?

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Maybe I'm just not understanding the solution, but I don't think that everything is clear enough.

First of all, I agree with manisdogfish. Maybe we don't understand what devalue means in this sense.

Then, assuming that touching the lentils does not devalue, I have a problem with volume. The way I picture this, we get an hourglass shape. So, we fill the innkeepers bag halfway, then tie it up, and turn it inside out. However, since its bound halfway, the empty top half if really going to be fitting around the bottom half. So, if we do actually fill it up halfway, then the top half will now also be full. Thus, no more room for the peas.

I realize that I have assumed that the peas and lentils fill up the bag, half and half. However, the problem never specified. I think it should. The farmers bag could be filled up, but its the size of the innkeepers bag that matters (in relation to the amount brought it). If the lentils fill up one-third of the bag, then its turned inside out, the remaining two-thirds will now be half filled by the bound-up lentils. If the peas also amount to one-third of the innkeepers bag, then there is enough room in the inverted top half.

If I look at it more, even one-third is too much in some respects. It would have to one-bound-up-third. One-third of a non-bound-up bag is obviously more than one of three bound-up sections. This has to do with surface area of the actual sack.

Forgive me if I've ranted. I kind of hope someone shows me a something I didn't think of to make this solution a little more valid. I have found myself proven wrong several times when I do not agree with a solution. Its always before I go so far as to post about it, though. If anyone agrees with me, then I just think the problem should be re-phrased. I do appreciate the solution, but I believe the problem was an after-thought of the solution.

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Ok, here's the deal:

We start with an hourglass looking sack with peas on bottom and lentils on top. I think it is safe to assume there are only two sacks operating here and neither can be cut.

Next, we pour the top part (lentils) into the innkeeper's sack. Twist this once and then take the extra fabric and fold it around the lentils. This creates not an hourglass shape, but something else...maybe a bowl with a spherical object in it shape. Then the peas are poured in around the lentils (which are on the other side of the bag safely twisted up). Finally, you must reach in and undo the twist so that the lentils fall out the other end without ever touching the peas.

The only thing here is that I guess you have to reach into the peas in order to untwist the part with the lentils. Is touching peas for innkeepers and farmers tantamount to devaluing?

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Ok, here's the deal:

We start with an hourglass looking sack with peas on bottom and lentils on top. I think it is safe to assume there are only two sacks operating here and neither can be cut.

Next, we pour the top part (lentils) into the innkeeper's sack. Twist this once and then take the extra fabric and fold it around the lentils. This creates not an hourglass shape, but something else...maybe a bowl with a spherical object in it shape. Then the peas are poured in around the lentils (which are on the other side of the bag safely twisted up). Finally, you must reach in and undo the twist so that the lentils fall out the other end without ever touching the peas.

exactly - that's what I meant (and did not write in such details so that you could be the one)

How would you unbind the innkeepers sack that holds the lentils and peas without reaching through the peas to unbind the lentils? Wouldn't reaching through the peas be devaluing them?

I don't have to reach through the peas

- just do a knot where the rope is long enough to stand out of the peas. And in the end, simply pull the rope and untie the sack.

- or do a twist and untwist it from the bottom (from where the lentils are expected to fall out)

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• 3 weeks later...

I see- clever, like a bowl within a bowl.

I was thinking grab another trader and pour the lentils in their sack, pour the rich man his beans and then either swap sacks with him or pour back into the farmers.

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• 2 weeks later...

Or just open the end of the sack that you need. or cut the sack in half.

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I would bind the sack with two pieces of rope in the part of the sack between the lentils and peas, and cut the sack in two. The client would get one half, you would keep the other.

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Technically, the question as worded makes no mention of NOT being able to cut open one end of the farmer's sack - only the innkeeper's. Based on how the question is asked, it is a perfectly valid answer to say the farmer just cuts open the side of the sack containing the peas, and pour them into the innkeeper's sack. The farmer can then bind his sack again later where it was cut, and continue to use it as a double-sided sack if he wishes.

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ok, i get the solution now, but i think that putting the peas in what was the outside of the bag would be devaluing the merchandise. because you never know where that innkeeper keeps his sacks!

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Sack - Back to the Logic Puzzles

A poor farmer went to a market to sell some peas and lentils, however as he had only one sack and didn't want to mix peas and lentils, he poured in the peas at first, bound the sack up and than poured in the lentils. At the market a rich innkeeper wanted to buy the peas, but he did not want the lentils.

How would you solve this problem if you had only the sack of the innkeeper, which he wants to keep (without devaluing the goods).

Edit: Pouring the goods anywhere else than in sacks (eg. on the ground, table etc.) is considered as devaluing. Trading sacks is not allowed.

Sack - solution

Pour the lentils into the innkeeper’s sack, bind it and turn inside out. Pour in the peas. Then unbind the sack a pour the lentils back to your sack.

The Innkeeper's sack must be big enough to pull the part with the knot up above the peas for untying it, otherwise you would have to touch the peas with your hands, which would clearly devalue them.

If the sack were only large enough to hold either the peas OR the lentils, then this would not work at all...

So I'm afraid you'll have to do one better than this, Rookie

BoilingOil

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The Innkeeper's sack must be big enough to pull the part with the knot up above the peas for untying it, otherwise you would have to touch the peas with your hands, which would clearly devalue them.

If the sack were only large enough to hold either the peas OR the lentils, then this would not work at all...

So I'm afraid you'll have to do one better than this, Rookie

BoilingOil

and what if one sack contained a mysterious infection that devalues the other goods and what if I made it all up and there was no innkeeper and no goods

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wouldnt just buying a second sack save the problem... while the farmers at the market

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If one were a salesperson he would convice the man to purchase both.

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Open the bag from the bottom and pour out the lentils. Then twist both ends closed holding in the peas.

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Simply tie the target sack in half, vertically, pour the lentils into one side, then the peas into the other. Then pour the lentils back into the source sack.

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What the hell is a lentil?

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What the hell is a lentil?
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tie the top of the bag, and then cut where you made the first tie.

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tie the top of the bag, and then cut where you made the first tie.

no cutting (no damage to the sacks / goods) is allowed

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Another variation on the hour glass method is to move the peas to one side of the bottom of the hour glass and then tie off the bottome half with the peas in it. Then untie the original knot, let the lentals fall into the bottom of the sack, partition thoes to the other side of the bottom of the hour glass, tie them off, then untie the peas and your all good. Way more steps than is necessary, but it works.

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cut a hole in the bottom of the sack then pour the pears into the buyers sack after all the sack can be repaired

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