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Crocodile Sophism


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If the crocodile is THAT hungry, he'll just eat the kid even if the answer is right.However, if he is telling the truth, she should either say "You will give me back my child", or " you will eat my child" of course if you say the latter, he'll probably say "damn right i am" and eat him. It all depends on if the crocodile is honest. If not, Sorry lady! ;)

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Crocodile Sophism - Back to the Paradoxes A slim crocodile living in Nile took a child. Mother begged to give him back. The crocodile could not only talk, he was also a great sophist, and so he sta

I would think that the only way to make ANY sense of the situation is for the woman to repeat back to the croc EXACTLY what he said to HER: "If I guess right, you'll give my baby back, if I dont, you'

Perhaps I'm not understanding the question here. However, it would seem to me the obvious issue and advice here would be to say: "You'll eat the child Mister Crocodile." Remember: this is an ancient b

If the crocodile is THAT hungry, he'll just eat the kid even if the answer is right.However, if he is telling the truth, she should either say "You will give me back my child", or " you will eat my child"

But now, here is the paradox. Yes, if the croc is being honest or not is important, but how about this: she could say "you will defenitely not give me back my child." If he keeps the child, he will be lying. If he gives back the child, he will be lying. The only logical thing for him to do with the child would be something completely different, like dump him in the river. She can then fish him out because the crocodile can no longer touch the boy, unless there are some very smart hippos in there too.

MORAL OF STORY: don't let children play by rivers known to be homes of crocodiles.

Edited by Katiebug815
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Crocodile Sophism - Back to the Paradoxes

A slim crocodile living in Nile took a child. Mother begged to give him back. The crocodile could not only talk, he was also a great sophist, and so he stated: "If you guess (Edited: predict the fate = guess correctly), what I will do with him, I will return him. However, if you don't guess his fate I'll eat him." What statement shall the mother make to save her child (what about a

Crocodile Sophism - Back to the Paradoxes

A slim crocodile living in Nile took a child. Mother begged to give him back. The crocodile could not only talk, he was also a great sophist, and so he stated: "If you guess (Edited: predict the fate = guess correctly), what I will do with him, I will return him. However, if you don't guess his fate I'll eat him." What statement shall the mother make to save her child (what about a vicious circle ...)?

No matter what the mother says it depends on what the crocodile decides to do. There is an infinite possibilty of options that can happen if she gets it right but there is only one if she gets it wrong. The crocodile said he'll eat the child if she gets it wrong. So she says the crocodile will eat he child then the crocodile will not be able to eat the child or she'll be correct. Given that the child will then be useless to the child he may give it back.

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I don't think that this is a paradox. It sounds like one. The word "guess" doesn't belong because there is nothing to guess about. This is more like an 'Honestant and Swindicant' problem becuase the mother either says "crocodile gives the child back" and the croc does it or the croc "deceives" the woman and eats the child.

if you look at the so called paradox it says if you dont guess his fate, ill eat him, so as long as you provide a guess you'll get him back either way, because any guess is a correct guess but if you stay silent and not provide an answer then your screwed lady

the paradox is that she say you will eat my child. if he eats her she is correct if he dosnt she is incorrect

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"you are going to eat him"

1) statement is true <=> the crocodile is actually going to eat the child <=> she guessed correctly <=> crocodile is going to (/it has to) return the child

2) statement is not true <=> the crocodile is not going to eat the child <=> he is going to return the child

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To get the child back the crocodile must do what the mother says, this eliminates the answer "you will eat him".  Also if the mother says "you will give him back" that leaves the crocodile free to eat the child.  To eat the child the crocodile must bite the child; however crocodile bites are not inherently deadly, thus the mother should say "you will bite my child" the crocodile will start to eat the child by biting him then be forced to give the child back.

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I would think that the only way to make ANY sense of the situation is for the woman to repeat back to the croc EXACTLY what he said to HER: "If I guess right, you'll give my baby back, if I dont, you'll eat him. That's what you'll do to him." He'd have to return the baby, because she's CORRECT NO MATTER WHAT. Eh? hehehe

 

 

 

I would think that the only way to make ANY sense of the situation is for the woman to repeat back to the croc EXACTLY what he said to HER: "If I guess right, you'll give my baby back, if I dont, you'll eat him. That's what you'll do to him." He'd have to return the baby, because she's CORRECT NO MATTER WHAT. Eh? hehehe

ur statement seems partially true

had the croc's st8ment been like

"If you guess, what I will do with him", I will return him

so the mother could repeat "if you guess, what will I do with him" and the croc wud return the kid

but the quote includes the words " I will return him" so the logic doesnt work

I think the mother could say anything to retrieve the chiild

since all the croc wants is the mother to "GUESS"

he dint say predict the fate or speak the truth or sumthin liek that

so the mother could go on and guess anything random related to the child in order to save him

 

I highly agree with both of these answers because from what you are both saying corresponds with each other. Now, I see where Cyrx is coming from that all the mother has to do is guess her childs fate, but in all technicality J man is also right because if that was the statement that the mother gave, then it was a guess so the answer that J man put is correct but it corresponds with Cyrx's answer which is also correct.

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I would say: "Whatever you do to my child requires movement."

Because technically, if the crocodile wants the eat the child he'll have to move his jaws, if he wants to return it he'll have to swim, and even if he just keeps still he'll be breathing so in the end there's no way the woman could be wrong.

 

She could also say: "Whatever you do, you'll be breathing."

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"You will eat my child" => "mother is right" => The crocodile must return the child but he can do so as crocodile dung.

"You will eat my child after he dies from old age" => "nope, lady, will do right now" => mother is wrong => game over

Only solution is to NOT reply - The crocodile can't verify whether mommy is right or wrong, hence he's forbidden to eat the child. NULL vs True & False!

 

The sophism itself:

A: you guess right; B: I eat the boy

Sentence 1: A => not B       (alternate: B => not A "I only eat the boy 'cos you guessed wrong")
Sentence 2: not A => B       (alternate: not B => A
A <=> not B, hence the sophism.

Edited by The_unbeliever
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lets assume that whatever the mother says will be true which in this case it is. the simple response to the crocodile will be "you will give him back". if she says that then the crocodile will have to give the child back because as i said we assume that whatever the mother says is true. then it leads us to ask, if she said that he would not give the child back, there would be a chance that the crocodile intended to eat him, but since the mother predicted it, she would get the child. then we see a paradox in the second scenario where the crocodile was going to eat him but didnt and at this point the crocodile probably drags the child back in the nile with the same intent as the first time. of course if the keep doing that over and over eventually one of them will change their answer, but what does it matter? if the crocodile changes his intent from eating to guving back then if the woman predicts that he will give the child back the child he must and ge will. at that point he will be so infuriated, he will take the mother and let the child go as promised.

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Every saying the correct answer is "you will give him back" is wrong. this is easy.

what you need to say is "you will eat him" after that there are one or two options

1. You are right

2. You are wrong 

if you were right and the crocodile was planning to eat the boy he would have to give him back

if you were wrong then the crocodile would plan to eat the boy, making you right. Then the crocodile has to give him back 

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1. The mother has to guess. Restating what the crocodile's riddle is saying something the mother knows. She knows that if she's right in her guess the child is returned and if she is wrong the child is eaten.

2. The mother has to guess Correctly. Any guess will not suffice for the child's return. 

3. If she guesses correctly that the child will be eaten, then the child must be eaten. Next (after the eating (assuming she was right)) the child will be returned.... Crocodile poop. Otherwise, she was incorrect and the child will be eaten with no return (crocodile poop).

4. If she guesses correctly that the child will be returned, then the child will be returned unharmed. If she is wrong the child will be eaten and will not be returned (as poop). 

5. A smart*** could guess something the crocodile will do to the child that is neither eating or releasing. For instance the mother does not know but could guess (either correctly or incorrectly) that the crocodile will touch, change, smell, hear, taste, the child. If she is correct then that is what the crocodile will do:  example, touch the child and let child go.

6. Removing the option #5 the best option is to hope that whatever mercy provoked the crocodile to pose a chance for the mother and child is the same mercy which would provoke it to relese the child. So guess that the child will not be eaten. Otherwise the best you get is crocodile poop.

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On 6/9/2007 at 0:56 PM, rookie1ja said:

Crocodile Sophism - Back to the Paradoxes

 

A slim crocodile living in Nile took a child. Mother begged to give him back. The crocodile could not only talk, he was also a great sophist, and so he stated: "If you guess (Edited: predict the fate = guess correctly), what I will do with him, I will return him. However, if you don't guess his fate I'll eat him." What statement shall the mother make to save her child (what about a vicious circle ...)?

I think the mother only has to say that the slim croc would eat the child. If she was wrong, then the croc would resolve to eat the child, Thus making the mother right.(Therefore he would be forced to give her back the child). If the croc WAS going to eat the child, then he would still give the child back

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A slim crocodile living in Nile took a child. Mother begged to give him back. The crocodile could not only talk, he was also a great sophist, and so he stated: "If you guess (Edited: predict the fate = guess correctly), what I will do with him, I will return him. However, if you don't guess his fate I'll eat him." What statement shall the mother make to save her child (what about a vicious circle ...)?

See, this depends on the variation between the two things the crocodile said. One one of his statements, he asked the woman what he would do with him. On his second, he stated that he would eat the child if she did not guess his fate. If he was going by the second way, then all the mother would have had to do was say, 'He will die eventually.' This is always true, though if his first saying was the rule, then all she would have to have said was, 'You will do something with him.' Of course, then the crocodile would have had to have given up the child no matter what the circumstances. 

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I think that the only way to get the child back withouth any risk is stating that if he doesn't return the child he will eat him,then at that point will have no choice but returning him.Or she could say some thing like if it makes it she'll send him to school or buy him new clothes;since the crocodille never said it couldn't be something obvious

 

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