rookie1ja

Lazy-bones Paradox

190 posts in this topic

It's difficult to reason out the nature of destiny, yet with the utilization of a metaphor we can paint its absurdity clearly. Imagine there being some omnipotent all-knowing being that controls the very fabric of reality. Some people call him/her God. S/he decides to create these fleshy things for their own purpose and can control every decision they make. So in essence God is a puppeteer and we are their marionettes. They've come all this way to have their puppets argue with each other over the nature of destiny and free will. If there is purpose and design, or an inherent destiny, it would seemingly be apparent to all it influences.

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i think, therefore I am;

but I am, because of he;

and he, is he, who thinks.

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Well, if there isn't free will, then this whole discussion about free will was preordained.

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Yes, but preordained doesnt = pointless

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"You didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You came here to understand the choice."

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statement A: I went to the doctor (we're considering whether doing A or not A)
statement B: I am not sick anymore (the most favorable result)

I kinda like being healthy. So we're wondering whether:
1) Going to the doc will make me better: A => B
2) Not going to the doc will worsen my condition: not A => not B


1) Let's suppose A => B is true (The Doc is darn good)

 ***I'll definitely go visit the Doc, because I would be 100% sure to get better doing so.
 -> Logics made me go to the Doc, not destiny.

   Let's take it a step further: I'm considering not going to the doc anyway
   not B = > not A is also true by supposition.
   (not B) I am still sick (because) I didn't go to the doctor (not A)
 -> It's my choice and fault I'm still sick, not destiny's


1absurd) If we suppose not A => B (the Doc is Hannibal Lecter anyway)
    Then not B => A: I am still sick because I knowingly went to the Doc and fed him a few organs; my lack of judgment, not Destiny.

 

2) Let's suppose not A => not B is true (not going to the Doc will make me sicker)
   Then B => A is also true
   (B) I am not sick anymore (because) I went to the doctor (not A)

 ***My visit to the doctor is the reason I'm better, not destiny.


2absurd) If we suppose A => not B (your Doc has bubonic plague and Ebola)
   Then B => not A... Why would I be that stupid anyway, since I have the choice to go or not?

 

Hence, considering whether going to the doctor or not will affect your health, makes destiny, Big Brother and all Gods absurd and irrelevant. You heretic! :)

Bottom line: You've denied destiny the very instant you've asked "isn't it useless [...] to go to a doctor"?

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if you beleive in destiny than what is the pount in life. im a christian and the difference is that i am with god

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if you beleive in destiny than what is the pount in life. im a christian and the difference is that i am with god

  How could you question the presented opinion?

In order to question someone's opinion, you need to do so on some kind of common ground...  Your religion is of no relevance.
You have to leave your own beliefs at the doorstep of a home you've been invited to, or refuse the invitation:

But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 14

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This cannot possibly be explained. Since the man believes in destiny then whichever choice he choose, wether or not to go to the doctor's office, then it was already predetermined that he would make that decision. Also if destiny is real than he has no say in what happens, considering that everything he says, thinks, or does is already predetermined.

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It is our destiny to take our own will into our own hands.

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     Personally, I think in order to solve this paradox we need to know a few things. We need to know if destiny is a being or a force. We also need to know if destiny can be challenged, whether it's a force or a being. We also need to know if this "doctor" can challenge destiny, and if destiny has "people" to execute this "master plan." If destiny can be challenged, and is a weak force or a being, chances are yes, you could get well again from visiting a doctor. If destiny cannot be challenged and is a strong force, then no, it would not do any good to go to a doctor. Overall, this is would simple paradox (well not even a paradox, just a question) to solve, if we have just a bit more information.

 

 

-Samson

17 minutes ago, SamsonBrainPower said:

     Personally, I think in order to solve this paradox we need to know a few things. We need to know if destiny is a being or a force. We also need to know if destiny can be challenged, whether it's a force or a being. We also need to know if this "doctor" can challenge destiny, and if destiny has "people" to execute this "master plan." If destiny can be challenged, and is a weak force or a being, chances are yes, you could get well again from visiting a doctor. If destiny cannot be challenged and is a strong force, then no, it would not do any good to go to a doctor. Overall, this is would simple paradox (well not even a paradox, just a question) to solve, if we have just a bit more information.

 

 

-Samson

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Also, is it our destiny specifically? Or everyone's destiny?

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What if destiny is to go to the doctor to get better?

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No paradox here. Only the question of free will.

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On 9 June 2007 at 7:55 PM, rookie1ja said:

Lazy-bones Paradox - Back to the Paradoxes

 

If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless to for example go to a doctor? If I am ill and it is my destiny to regain health, than I will regain health whether I visit a doctor or I don't. And if I shall not be healthy again, than I will not with or without help.

If I am ill and destiny has a definite plan for me, than it is useless to go anywhere.

How could you question the presented opinion?

Your destiny and your choice are not mutually exclusive. In fact they are necessarily accompanying. 

Your choice is "realizing and fulfilling" your destiny whatever that may be. 

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Actually i can see why this is perceived as a paradox. For one thing, if destiny did actually exist, then there would be nothing you can do to stop it. Let's say if you were to try and stop something from happening, then you'll be the one to have caused it in the first place. It will just loop back around. Also, for the Whovians here, it's basically a fixed point in time. Theres nothing you can do to stop the future that has already been set into motion.

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