Lazy-bones Paradox

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Can we possibly have more than one possible future?

(naturally I have an opinion on the subject but I'd like to see what others think first...)

start a new topic in section "Others" for that

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Sounds like "do you have a choice" which MAY come down to belief/religion. Is there a purpose to life? What is it if there is? If there is such a thing as destiny and all our lives are controlled and we are simply pieces in a game. I can't make that work for me in any shape or form. . Shakespear said something like "All the world is a stage and all the people in it are MEARLY players". Interesting thought for that period.

Lets get on with life with all its "surprises" ("lifes rich tapestry"), and not get ahead of ouselves with issues of "what if" of "maybe then".

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start a new topic in section "Others" for that

:huh: Is that really a new topic? I think it's the single aspect of the existing topic which hasn't yet been done to death. The question of what we do about destiny may hinge on what (or if) we think destiny is. Admittedly you did state that as a precondition in your original post, but your topic has a real-life relevance which depends on what we think about this. Just trying to steer the subject into deeper waters... ^_^

Sounds like "do you have a choice" which MAY come down to belief/religion. Is there a purpose to life? What is it if there is? If there is such a thing as destiny and all our lives are controlled and we are simply pieces in a game. I can't make that work for me in any shape or form. . Shakespear said something like "All the world is a stage and all the people in it are MEARLY players". Interesting thought for that period.

Lets get on with life with all its "surprises" ("lifes rich tapestry"), and not get ahead of ouselves with issues of "what if" of "maybe then".

Doom and gloom! It isn't that bad, LIS! Life is what it is even if there is only one future. What I'm suggesting is that destiny doesn't require there to be some purpose or plan to life. As far as you're concerned the future is unpredictable, you make the decisions you want, and reap the consequences. Nevertheless, if your every thought is determined by cause and effect, the "choices" you make are themselves deterministic. That's the curious thing about it. Knowledge of this fact* leads to the belief that you have but one future ahead of you, so your apparent ability to choose your fate is just an illusion, which leads to apathy and laziness, etc, etc...

Heres a thought:

You've been kidnapped and locked in a room with a red door and a green one. You are told "You have the freedom to leave the room by whichever door you choose, and accept the consequences". So you choose (say) the green door, which leads to a reward and an exit. Later you find out that the red door was a fake door with just a wall behind it. The maker of this room (having studied the way you think in infinite detail) knew that you were certain to choose the green door and therefore didn't bother building a second exit. It's true that you had "the freedom to leave the room by whichever door you choose", since you would only ever have chosen the green door, regardless of how "free" you thought your choice was. Freedom doesn't necessarily mean that there is more than one possible outcome.

As to religion, I've avoided the topic since it just seems to muddy the waters. It gives us a way to rationalise free will or destiny by saying "God wants it this way" or "God makes it that way", and in the end just replaces rationality with supposition. Personally I find it quite unnecessary (needless to say God-bothering aint my bag).

* not necessarily an actual fact, hence the question I posed!

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Posted · Report post

:huh: Is that really a new topic? I think it's the single aspect of the existing topic which hasn't yet been done to death.

this topic has many pages and the last posts might lack attention ... starting new topic (in "Others") should ensure more attention to the new posts

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Or to put it another way, Can we possibly have more than one possible future?

(naturally I have an opinion on the subject but I'd like to see what others think first...)

Octopuupy, I'd like to get on this debate, if it has started tell me where please, it does have some link with the previus post but i think it goes off tangentially - raise new topic please.

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Octopuupy, I'd like to get on this debate, if it has started tell me where please, it does have some link with the previus post but i think it goes off tangentially - raise new topic please.

OK, I get the message!

New topic posted in Others:

Destiny vs Free Will - there can be only one!

See you there! :D

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if destiny exist;

anything that will happen is as destined;

else;

it will work out that way;

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IMO, this "paradox" is easily explained. The man that thinks this, is still being controlled by destiny. The thing is, him even THINKING this is destiny (or future, if you will). If he chooses that going to the doctor will solve his problem, because destiny isn't possible, then that was his destiny all along. It is not as simple as anything that can be told to you, as such palm readers, fortune tellers, etc. can't be real. This fact doesn't change the reality that destiny is what's going to happen, clear and simple. Nothing can change something as basic, and inalianable as destiny, because attempting to change it basically IS one's destiny, if they so choose to go that route.

that is the first answer the second answer is there are no such thing as destiny. both of them are a really good answers

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Our free will is how destiny manifests. Free will is the process of destiny manifesting. If you understand free will as a process rather than a static thing it makes sense. Whether you believe in a collective unconscious or destiny or god or whatever, or you believe in chaos, your free will is part of the larger picture. It is the process by which we 'live'. If you adopt the notion that all is predestined and therefore decisions are useless you are not living. The only reason I can see to adopt this notion is fear of taking responsibility for life. Though, it is still irrational. Whether you believe all life is chaotic or that there is a highly organized creation mechanism, you still have to take responsibility. It's what separates children from adults - responsibility. Some may contend that "god" has designed the world and our lives based on a grand plan. That's all well and fine, but don't dump toxic waste down the drain and say, "it's ok. God will protect us." That's using religion as a scapegoat. In the end, you will have to take responsibility, whether you choose to or not. There is no real way to avoid free will and it's subsequent responsibility. Whether you make a decision and take action or not, you are still breathing. That is a choice. That is free will. Better to make it count. Better to be conscious of our free will than to live in denial, believing in a fairy-tale of false pretenses, and have to take responsibility anyway.

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This reminds me of the story where a man is told by the Police that a flood is threating his house, and he needs to move to safety. The man replies "God will save me", and stays in the house. Later that day, the flood waters force the man up to the second floor where a person in a boat comes past and tells him that he'll take him to safety. Again the man replies "God will save me" and declines the offer. The next day the stranded man is forced on to his roof due to the rising waters. A helicopter hovers over his house and tells the man to climb the ladder and that they'll take him to safety. Again the man declines, using his argument that God will save him. Later that day the waters continue to rise, and the man eventually drowns. He arrives in heaven and asks God why He didn't save him. God replies, "I tried. I came as a policeman, a boat operator and a helicopter pilot. Why didn't you take my help?"

Basically, the man in the original question can choose to either go to the doctor or not. The doctor will possibly save him, but that isn't known. Free will suggests that the man should attempt all reasonable means at his disposal to save himself, but it's his choice. Destiny tells you that if whatever treatment used, fails, it was the man's destiny to die due to his ailment; regardless of treatment.

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If you do not go to the doctor then it is down to fate. If you go to the doctor then whatever (s)he says will most likely happen this is because we belive what the doctor says. For example: you have bird flu (a desies that kills you) if the doctor says "you will live" you believe the doctor but you know that it kills you. :huh: You will die, this because if tou tell you brain you are going to die your brain belives you and you will die. A docter gives two paticents a polo mint and tell one that he will fall ill and tells the other one he whill be alright. one fell ill and the other was ok. :)

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Posted · Report post

Maybe it's your destiny to go to a doctor

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destiny is hypothetical. It's easy to create paradoxes in hypothetical situations because they are not reality.

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I think that modern medicine may be a part of our destiny.maybe it is fate that we go to see a doctor after all if it happens isn't it part of our destiny?I think that is why people die even if they go and see the doctor,that just proves to me that we are attached to our own fate.Our happiness,luck,peril,and misfortune has all been prepared.Each person has a different path and they all meet at life and end at fate and even though we fight it we can only help it along for our paths had been prepared long before we even existed

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In this case, destiny = death. Everyone will die, so, Death = destiny.....destiny now becomes the outcome, how and when the outcome is achieved is a variable.

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Heres one, can't remember where from though:

An old fisherman is returning home from a good days catch along his well known channel when suddenly he has a vision of his boat crashing in to the reef. Out of fear for his life and boat he steers into unknown waters, out of the channel. Moments later he crashes into the very reef he saw in his vision.

My belief is that destiny itself has several paths for us to walk and it is up to us to choose the path we take. In the above example if the fisherman had stayed his course then he would have not crashed his boat.

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If it defines everything that is to happen, going to the doctor is in there. If you are to get better, going to the doctor might be in the list of what you do to get there. If you don't go to the doctor, and the plan said you will, the plan does not define everything that is to happen. B))

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if destiny is absolute, "free will" doesn't exist you do what your going to do you (hypothetically if you know your destiny, knowing your destiny doesn't change that) then knowing your destiny is part of your destiny

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Posted (edited) · Report post

My destiny is to defy destiny. What happens then? Just a random thought.....

Edited by Kinoth
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One thing that may have been mentioned is that it may be your destiny to see the doctor. If that is the case, assuming that destiny does exist and free will doesn't, then you would only be complying to these laws.

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Sure that destiny has made it so you will get better :D but it has also given you the choice whether or not to get better by going to a doctor. It knows the choice that you're going to make but still allows you to make it change. As they say; The futurer is in your hands B))

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you know people actually want to know whether they're going to live or die, and whether or not they're going to be healthy or ill, so they can plan what to do with the rest of they're lives or just call off sick

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I have small understanding of the human condition insofar as free will and destiny. I enjoy hearing it restated in a challenging paradox that seems to poke fun at our collective ignorance.

I don't mean to sound too forward, but the answer is reall very easy, yet hard to explain. Understand that the concept of destiny requires that we do not know what it is. If we know what our destiny is then it is no longer destiny and is subject to our will.

However free will and destiny can both exist. From an omnipresent perspective, our freewill is part of the destiny of our world. Our choices were not predetermined by God or anything else, however the choices you make are a result of your circumstances. God, if you choose to belive in him, knew what choices you were going to make way before you made them.

Its very hard to explain, and truthfully, I think it can only be truely understood when you come to the conclusion yourself.

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Lazy-bones Paradox - Back to the Paradoxes

If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless to for example go to a doctor? If I am ill and it is my destiny to regain health, than I will regain health whether I visit a doctor or I don't. And if I shall not be healthy again, than I will not with or without help.

If I am ill and destiny has a definite plan for me, than it is useless to go anywhere.

How could you question the presented opinion?

It is not usless to go to the doctor because it could have been your destiny to go to this doctor to become healthy again if you decide not to go well you miight mess with destiny.

the problem is that everyone has a free choice whether it is you destiny or not

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:lol::lol::lol:;)

You are destined to be a part of Brainden forever...

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