Lazy-bones Paradox

[rookie1ja]

Lazy-bones Paradox - Back to the Paradoxes

If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless to for example go to a doctor? If I am ill and it is my destiny to regain health, than I will regain health whether I visit a doctor or I don't. And if I shall not be healthy again, than I will not with or without help.

If I am ill and destiny has a definite plan for me, than it is useless to go anywhere.

How could you question the presented opinion?

[Guest]

IMO, this "paradox" is easily explained. The man that thinks this, is still being controlled by destiny. The thing is, him even THINKING this is destiny (or future, if you will). If he chooses that going to the doctor will solve his problem, because destiny isn't possible, then that was his destiny all along. It is not as simple as anything that can be told to you, as such palm readers, fortune tellers, etc. can't be real. This fact doesn't change the reality that destiny is what's going to happen, clear and simple. Nothing can change something as basic, and inalianable as destiny, because attempting to change it basically IS one's destiny, if they so choose to go that route.

[Guest]

Without saying my religious affiliation the easiest way to question it is that there is no destiny.

The question relies on the following assumptions any of which can be challenged:

1)there is such thing as destiny

2)destiny can't be changed

3)destiny does not depend on your actions

and a few more that I am too tired to write out right now.

[Guest]

I was predestined to choose.

(Former Presbyterian, now of same religion as above)

[Guest]

This is not a paradox........either way you choose, to go to the doctor or not to go to the doctor is what your destiny is.

[Guest]

Supposing there is destiny and everyone has a destined path:

If you were ill, it could be in your destined path to go to the doctor to make yourself better. So you may sit around and risk that you get better or believe that it is in your destined path to make YOURSELF better by going to the doctor

[Guest]

Without saying my religious affiliation the easiest way to question it is that there is no destiny.

The question relies on the following assumptions any of which can be challenged:

1)there is such thing as destiny

2)destiny can't be changed

3)destiny does not depend on your actions

and a few more that I am too tired to write out right now.

However, if one believed in destiny, the response to your questions would simply be, "it is your destiny to question destiny in and of itself." The beauty or problem with destiny is that it cannot be proven but is simply a matter of faith. If you go or choose not to go to the doctor, either outcome is our destiny (including the ultimate outcome, i.e. you recover or die).

I don't know what compelled me to post this. Must have been my destiny.

[Guest]

The subject of 'destiny' is very difficult to deal with, not least because it flys in the face of 'free will'. Let's say for example that I break my leg. I think to myself, 'I have the choice to go to a doctor and get the bones set'. In this scenario that's exactly what I do and soon after I am happily walking about again. In another scenario I think, If it's my destiny for my leg to heal it will, and if not, it wont, so ther's no point in seeing the doctor'. Eventually my leg does heal but I am left with such a bad limp that I must use crutches for the rest of my life.

Was it my destiny to make this choice or was I just an ill informed idiot who based his life on wishful thinking? It would seem that if we really do have choices to make and act upon them, we alter the potential of our lives.

Lazy Bones says "...if I shall not be healthy again, then I will not, with or without help". But the examples I've shown have two very different outcomes because in the latter the power to make a positive difference is sacrificed to the 'it's all in the lap of the gods' way of thinking.

Things are made more complicated if it is argued that somehow, whatever choice is made, it is our destiny to make THAT choice, rather than a different one. If this is so, it means that destiny unfolds life in it's own fashion and that any sense of choice we possess is nothing but illusion (or delusion). If that's true then the whole world is deluded because surely it must be a fact, that anyone who can think, is busy making decisions of one kind or another.

In a world where destiny rules there can be no point in making choices and yet, if we all stopped this process, our existence would deteriorate and come to an end. If such a hypothetic event took place, we would surely go to our graves knowing that WE had caused it and not some hidden force that we have no control over.

The problem with a belief in desiny is that it robs us of the intelligent manipulation of lifes variables. A kind of que sera, sera. Maybe the future isn't ours to see but you can bet your unborn Grandchildren that it's very much ours to influence.

[Guest]

As Poppa_Bunnyman say so well: "him even THINKING this is destiny."

If his thinking is controlled by destiny, he would think "I need to go to a doctor" or "I don't." There are diseases that can be cured by a doctor and the destiny is in the decision or whether to go or not. With those cases, the decision to go is the destiny that they are to live.

Also, there are people who go to the doctor and still die. It can be said then that they are destined to die. Before modern science, even with simple diseases, they were very likely to parish. It could then be said that it was destiny for medical science to evolve for people to be able to be cured of those sicknesses.

The status of his condition and the level of efficiency of the doctors along with the current knowledge of diseases would determine whether the disease will kill him or not. Not to mention, a doctor will simply tell him what his ailment is. It is then his choice to accept treatment or not assuming that he is of sound mind.

[Guest]

I have small understanding of the human condition insofar as free will and destiny. I enjoy hearing it restated in a challenging paradox that seems to poke fun at our collective ignorance.

[Guest]

Regardless of whether or whether not you believe in destiny,

it is important that you utilize your logic as frequently as possible.

Submission to the idea that destiny's plan is for you to remain in a chair for the duration of your life

seems quite unlikely. If this is what we were meant to do, then we would have died out as a species long ago.

[Guest]

OK. The statement is: Destiny (is) designed (as) a master plan. (That) defines everything that is to happen.

Destiny is an ideal & a copout.

1. "I believe in destiny", therefore any attempt that I make to accomplish any task is out of my control.

2. Why experience life with a continuing frustration of failures when it was "destiny" that ordained the enevitable?

3. Could I control "destiny" by considering every possible conclusion that "destiny" could reach?

4. Could I then be alert to all conclusions which come my way?

5. Could I then implement all conclusions by using a test strip and watching initial results.

6. Could I really be "DESTINY" and the actual power of my life and admit that it is I who am really responsible for "destiny?" Therefore it is I who am responsible for the failures as well as the successes that I experience in my life.

Conclusion: By this conclusion I am now a proud member of society. I can be productive without blaming destiny for all my failures. If I don't blame destiny for my failures, it goes that I can take pride in my successes.

[Guest]

If destiny is what is 'meant to be' then every choice you make becomes destiny. That is the only definitive reality. Any other options, ie. changing your mind, trying to 'outwit' destiny, or over-think every decision by trying to 'beat' destiny becomes irrelevant.

So, whether you go to the doctor or not, ultimately if you believe there is a 'plan' for you then your final decision is what was 'planned' all along. The outcome would be considered 'destiny' no matter which end result were true. Your resulting health would not come into play, it would simply be the outcome of a decision you were meant to make.

Gee, I hope I didn't sound confusing there.

[bonanova]

Destiny and free will become paradoxical if and only if

[1] they both determine the outcome of events.
[2] they apply to the same event at the same time.

Clearly, two independent forces cannot each have their way
in the same matter [e.g. going to the doctor] at the same
time [today, at 10:00, the time of my appointment.]

Either [if Destiny has its way] I become simply an observer,
capable only of telling someone after the fact that I did [or didn't]
keep my appointment or I choose to keep my appointment
and am forced [lamely] into the supposition that [my then unknown]
Destiny must have been that I do so. Destiny and free will cannot
both be the deciding factor and be independent of each other.

What does that mean? One conclusion is that one or the other
simply does not exist. [At least] one of them is simply an illusion:
one that people discuss, but that owns no real affective power.

Usually at this point we cling to our free will and throw Destiny
out the window. But experience suggests that particular outcomes
seem to happen despite the choices of others to the contrary:
one might assert that Hitler was destined to fail, despite protracted
and horrendous [free] choices made, by many, to obtain his success.
This is the seemingly favorite way to invoke Destiny - something that
happens over an extended period of time, contrary to many free
choices [or other inanimate obstacles] to the contrary.

This is the point of [2] at the beginning of my post. Free choices and
Destiny can coexist if they to not apply to the same matter at the
same time. It might be my Destiny, born out of my underlying desire for
health, to recover from an illness even though I decide not to keep today's
appointment with the doctor. Eventually I will seek and get the help I need.

In this sense, free will applies to the microscopic decisions and strategies
I employ moment by moment, and can logically co-exist with a Destiny
which sees eventual outcomes -- outcomes that are outside my ability
directly to create. Coexistence is non paradoxical -- both can determine
certain outcomes -- if they each operate in their respective, disjoint arenas.

Finally, if one believes in an overpowering Destiny that applies to every
event in every arena, and if, in the face of that prospect, one simply gives
up an active role in life, becoming only its spectator, it can be accurately
said that one has so chosen.

A paradox of a different type.

[Guest]

In reply to , as the caveman would say on the commercial; Uh...What???

I really admire and have respect for the thought and time that bonanova put into the subject at hand. bonanova, you must have an IQ that reports the cup runnith over!. Thank you for the challange that I will enjoy disecting your quote.

-Craig

P.S. I won't tell anyone MY IQ but it is >119 and <121...That is why I enjoy the challanges of this site. Maybe my IQ will learn something!

[bonanova]

Thanks.

I love these things, too, and thoroughly enjoy this site.

- bn

[Guest]

This is way to easy ok destiny has a design for everybody right? But since we have free will whatever we do changes our destiny or keeps it the same, so if u didn't go to the doctor you wouldnt get better which would change destiny's design. Or it could get better but u'd have more money in your pocket changing destiny's design either way!

[Guest]

Destiny needs to be defined. If destiny is simply what is going to happen (a set future) then it will happen. Look at it from a different perspective. last week you broke your leg and went to the doctor. At the time, you had a choice whether or not to go. Now (a week after going), you no longer have a choice of whether or not to go last week because it already happened. If destiny is just an outside view of the time-line, you would not be able to change it.

It would be like remembering forward what is going to have happened.

If destiny is given to religious meaning, it would be determined on how that religion defines destiny as to whether it can be thwarted.

[Guest]

There is a joke...

"A man was stranded in the ocean on a piece of wood after his ship wrecked. A man came by in a boat and asked 'Do you need help?' 'No, God will save me.' the stranded man replied. Again came a man in a boat, and again the boat captian asked 'Do you need help?' 'No, God will save me.' A thrid boat came by and the same conversation took place and the man died. When he got to heaven he asked God 'Why didn't you save me?' And God replied 'I sent you three boats!'"

So I think your destiny is not set in stone and you may see a part of it. But if it says you will live and you go off and get cancer and say oh well my destiny said i was gonna live and he doesn't go to the doctore and he dies because he didn't try to make his destiny come true.

[Guest]

IF THEN statements are always true.

[Guest]

I know the answer.

The question itself is much deeper than you could ever imagine.

The answer destroyed my life...and I regret the day I saw it.(not the question you see on this particular forum but the one that is hiden benith the words it self)

Once you are able to see the question than and only then you will be able to find answer.

rileyy ( you are a programer , or you see the world similiary )

I know that you will never stop seeking the answer , So I am not going atempt to convince you to stop.

For the rest of you that have some discent life I urge you STOP SEEKING THE ANSWER

becouse I asure you that it will ruin your mind , your soul or avarness or what ever you call it.

craigerstar I see you as my self based on my memory I also started with my IQ limitatation which was somewhare about yours.The iq120 represents the final limit of logic and problem solving of aware part of the celebral cortex.once you pass that molecular limit of evolution you will be able to pass the test smoothly above the measurments limits of the particular pattern for measurment of the iq , yes the test as some of you may trying to understand my words by making it into less simple ones.(I didnt said that you are stupid , becouse there is no such think ,that is just a poor atempt of limited brain power to insolt the other similiar to it).

I need to replenish my omega 6 resurses , by geting them from shop

More about this subject later.

(you might notised some spelling errors , dont think that you are smart or intelectualy superrior becouse of that fact , not all of us are from GB or USA , neather are paying much attention on if the speling is correct but more on what it ment.)

Till then try to resolwe my nick some of you might know me.

[Guest]

Its simple really

The MASTER PLAN contains all the decisions you are ever going to make aswell as everything else.

You just think you are in control.

Excuse my poor english. Im from estonia and still 12

[Guest]

This is also a silly play on words that is not really a paradox.

This is very similar to people who argue religion who have no religious beliefs.

Do I have a destiny?

I might believe I do, and I may even see a destiny in others.

This is not the same as having all events in the real world scripted and predetermined.

The "paradox" comes from people going to the silly with extentions of meanings.

Who I am and the situation I'm in may very well line me up for a destiny for something.

Could that destiny be not brought to completion because of real world events?

sure! why not.

Goes back to what we are using for a definition of desitny.

If I define it such that it can not exist, well, then I think there is a paradox.

Oh, gee, isn't that amazing.. .{sic}

If an actual talking dog goes to Hollywood, it would probably have a destiny of greatness.

[Guest]

This isn't really very complicated. I have the evidence that all events/occurences were destined to happen (choose one)...........THEY HAPPENED! The difficulty is in trying to explain that they were not destined to happen. Have at it.

[Guest]

You make destiny. Destiny doesn't make itself. Whatever someone's action is, is how destiny plays out.