Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is racing in the Olympic 400m dash and is in last place (8th). Billy overtakes everyone in the race, except for the guy in third place. What place is Billy in now? why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 EventHorizon Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is racing in the Olympic 400m dash and is in last place (8th). Billy overtakes everyone in the race, except for the guy in third place. What place is Billy in now? why? The person in third spontaneously combusted, leaving nothing behind for Billy to overtake. So Billy is in first place and there are only 7 people in the race now. Obviously, I know this is not correct.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 onetruth Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The person in third spontaneously combusted, leaving nothing behind for Billy to overtake. So Billy is in first place and there are only 7 people in the race now. Obviously, I know this is not correct.... That's the funniest response I've seen so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 onetruth Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Mr. 3rd place is now Mr. Gold Medalist, and Billy is in 2nd place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Mr. 3rd place is now Mr. Gold Medalist, and Billy is in 2nd place. Nope The man in 3rd place is the man in 3rd place. Not the man in 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The third place guy was in first place at a certain point in the race. Billy was in second at this time having overtaken everyone else. However, the 1st and 2nd place guys overtook Billy and the 3rd place guy to reach their respective finishes. Billy could be in 4th through 8th place since he might have later been overtaken by more racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The third place guy was in first place at a certain point in the race. Billy was in second at this time having overtaken everyone else. However, the 1st and 2nd place guys overtook Billy and the 3rd place guy to reach their respective finishes. Billy could be in 4th through 8th place since he might have later been overtaken by more racers. That still means that the guy in the 3rd place was not in 3rd place... try again. Think inside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 itachi-san Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 That still means that the guy in the 3rd place was not in 3rd place... try again. Think inside the box. I was thinking what toddpeak answered, but you refuted it. If you can answer this, is the guy in third place always in third throughout the entire race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 I was thinking what toddpeak answered, but you refuted it. If you can answer this, is the guy in third place always in third throughout the entire race? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The man in 3rd place clearly remains in third place, no ties or simultaneous transitions. Work along the lines of "what makes this statement impossible? So then what makes it possible?" The answer is very much inside the box. You may kick yourself when the answer is revealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Billy is racing in the Olympic 400m dash and is in last place (8th). Billy overtakes everyone in the race, except for the guy in third place. What place is Billy in now? why? Billy finished this race in last. he overtook everyone after the race was finished, as they stood around, except for the guy in third place, who was further down the track. Edited April 11, 2008 by DarkChild of Mercury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is in 4th place. If the runners are a, b, c, d, e, f, g, Billy (in positions 1 to 8 respectively at the start of the race) then let's say Billy first overtakes d, e, f and g, making the order now a, b, c, Billy, d, e, f, g. d and e then overtake Billy, putting him back in 6th place and giving the order a, b, c, d, e, Billy, f, g. Now, at exactly the same moment, d overtakes c who overtakes b, making the order a, d, c, b, e, Billy, f, g. d overtakes a and e overtakes b, making the order d, a, c, e, b, Billy, f, g. Now at exactly the same moment, e overtakes c who overtakes a, making the order d, e, c, a, b, Billy, f, g. Finally Billy overtakes a and b. The final order is d, e, c, Billy, a, b, f, g and Billy, at some point during the race, has overtaken everyone except c who has stayed in third place throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The man in 3rd place clearly remains in third place, no ties or simultaneous transitions. Work along the lines of "what makes this statement impossible? So then what makes it possible?" The answer is very much inside the box. You may kick yourself when the answer is revealed. Just seen the simultaneous transitions comment which makes my previous answer wrong. Please don't say that he is in last place, because after the race was run and they were driving home he overtook everyone who he raced against except for the guy in third place, but obviously this doesn't affect the outcome of the earlier race, or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy finished this race in last. he overtook everyone after the race was finished, as they stood around, except for the guy in third place, who was further down the track. Ah, now you are on the right track, though the answer is incorrect. Keep working that angle though. In "DarkChild of Mercury's" answer he didn't overtake everyone in the race, he would have just run past a bunch of people that were no longer in the race at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Ah, now you are on the right track, though the answer is incorrect. Keep working that angle though. In "DarkChild of Mercury's" answer he didn't overtake everyone in the race, he would have just run past a bunch of people that were no longer in the race at all. Does this mean that he overtook everyone while they were still in the race, i.e. during the race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Does this mean that he overtook everyone while they were still in the race, i.e. during the race? Yes, that is the accurate interpretation of hint #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is in 2nd place. The riddle describes the very beginning of the race, just after the gun sounded. The guy in third place (3rd position) is out in front, while Billy (who started on the outside lane, therefore being in last) overtook everyone just after the start and is now behind only that one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is in 2nd place. The riddle describes the very beginning of the race, just after the gun sounded. The guy in third place (3rd position) is out in front, while Billy (who started on the outside lane, therefore being in last) overtook everyone just after the start and is now behind only that one guy. Nope itachi-san -- "is the guy in third place always in third throughout the entire race?" Brandonb -- "Yes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Nope itachi-san -- "is the guy in third place always in third throughout the entire race?" Brandonb -- "Yes" If the guy is always in third place, that means there must always be two people in front of him. If there are no simultaneous transitions then this means those two people must remain the same two people throughout the race. But if Billy overtakes those two people then that means that at some point he must also be in front of the guy in third place, which would put the guy in 4th place which goes against this rule. (We know that Billy can not be one of those two people as he starts out in 8th place) The only way I can see this working is if Billy is not in the race and so Billy overtaking people does not affect their positions. Still not sure what this would mean, but as the OP says that Billy is in 8th place I don't think this is right either. Any more hints? Edited April 11, 2008 by neida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 If the guy is always in third place, that means there must always be two people in front of him. If there are no simultaneous transitions then this means those two people must remain the same two people throughout the race. But if Billy overtakes those two people then that means that at some point he must also be in front of the guy in third place, which would put the guy in 4th place which goes against this rule. (We know that Billy can not be one of those two people as he starts out in 8th place) The only way I can see this working is if Billy is not in the race and so Billy overtaking people does not affect their positions. Still not sure what this would mean, but as the OP says that Billy is in 8th place I don't think this is right either. Any more hints? Remember the fact that you established before? "he overtook everyone while they were still in the race, i.e. during the race" I believe that is the best hint I can give. Well maybe one more hint later. As for now just remember, do not over think this. Think inside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is in first place when he hands his baton to the guy in third place of the relay. The guy is on his own team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 onetruth Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The 3rd place guy was disqualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 itachi-san Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy is in first place when he hands his baton to the guy in third place of the relay. The guy is on his own team. Every member of a relay team is on the same place. Also, the riddle is for the 400m dash not the 400m relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy finished in 8th place - as in the lane# . . .he overtook everyone in the race except the guy in lane #3. . . I don't know, I'm reaching here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brandonb Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Billy finished in 8th place - as in the lane# . . .he overtook everyone in the race except the guy in lane #3. . . I don't know, I'm reaching here. Very good answer, but it is a reach, considering it is 8th place(not lane) as you said. I will post the answer for what place he is in, in a couple hours. I will post 'why' tomorrow. Remember... inside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 itachi-san Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) OK, maybe starting positions. In a race everyone is staggered at the start, so the guy in 3rd is starting at the inner-most lane and Billy is starting to his right. Edited April 11, 2008 by itachi-san Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Brandonb
Billy is racing in the Olympic 400m dash and is in last place (8th). Billy overtakes everyone in the race, except for the guy in third place. What place is Billy in now? why?
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