• 0

The Witch's Epigraph, Chapter Two: The Helix and the Rose

Question

Posted · Report post

Inspired by When the Seagulls Cry (Umineko no Naku Koro ni)

The difficulty of this chapter is Reasonably Solvable. Would you care to guess?

The story so far...

In 2011, eight members of an exclusive riddle club competed for a great prize. However, misfortune after misfortune struck the group: allegations of cheating were made, an earthquake and a storm struck, a valuable ring was stolen, and a trusted servant came to an untimely end. To complicate matters, the events of that night have been cloaked in a mantle of silence, leaving behind only mysteries and a set of typed pages of uncertain accuracy.

Ten years later, in 2021, a boy met with an enigmatic Witch to try to discover the truth of that night. At this gathering, he and a group of humans fought a series of duels to dispel the Witch's illusions. However, when the first duel ended, the boy unexpectedly defected to the Witch's side, leaving the players seemingly alone to face the bizarre mystery.

A Note for New Players:

I'm trying to keep this game relatively open for new players, so the first several puzzles can be solved without even glancing at the earlier threads. Later, I will generally link to prior posts in some form when they’re necessary to solve a puzzle. That said, the new thread will include spoilers for the earlier ones.

If you don't want to fish through all the earlier posts, here are a few tips:

* The narration is not literally reliable. Some scenes are exaggerations, and others are metaphorical. However, statements in red are true.

* There are two layers to this story, at the very least. We are reading sheets of paper describing supposed events of 2011. We are also attending a Witch's Banquet devoted to grappling with the mysteries raised by those sheets of paper.

Synopsis/Key Post Index:

The index/synopsis below might help you catch up with the plot. Since you probably don't want to go fishing through 26 pages on two threads, here are links to all of the posts with major plot/character details. All character intros include a puzzle.

Prologue:

page__view__findpost__p__312523

page__view__findpost__p__313047

page__view__findpost__p__313189

Chapter One:

page__view__findpost__p__313270

page__view__findpost__p__313525

page__view__findpost__p__313684

page__view__findpost__p__313797

page__view__findpost__p__313905

page__view__findpost__p__314036

page__view__findpost__p__314074

page__view__findpost__p__314104

page__view__findpost__p__314188

page__view__findpost__p__314283

page__view__findpost__p__314333

page__view__findpost__p__314369

page__view__findpost__p__314380

page__view__findpost__p__314391

page__view__findpost__p__314432

page__view__findpost__p__314476

page__view__findpost__p__314835

page__view__findpost__p__314920

epig2.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

199 answers to this question

  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

Potok approached, charged his sword with the evidence of the existence of a 'landing', and made a broad, wide sweep with the Blue Truth:

The Tower is a specific place/building on Earth, i'll go with a famous and actual place, another option would be an imaginary one (say from literature).

But the attack was so broad and wide that SHIN countered it one-handed using the Red blade in his off-hand:

Maybe the Tower is neither actual nor fictional; another option would be that it's both actual and fictional.

----

In different languages there are similar but importantly different sounds,

Attempting phonetic translations will allow mispronounciations to abound,

If you write 'shin' the silly westerners will think they're saying it right,

But if you write 'xin' they know they're not even if they're at it all night.

("Sin", "shin", "hsin", or "xin?" With such options as these

Official transcribers do much as they please.

SHIN has one Chinese parent, but what of the other?

I'd hasten to note, we know only his mother.

Tradition, for some, has a powerful voice -

Hepburn, not Pinyin? Deliberate choice.)

----

With more than enough evidence to strike, Plasmid joined the fray!

To the Witch of Secrets: Thalassa has a cell phone.

THALASSA knew perfectly well what he meant, but deflected the attack with a Red Truth, laughing:

I am not the holder of Fanshawe of the Shining Eye! I am the Crimson Witch, not the Crimson Apprentice.

----

The tower was not a real physical place large enough to house a person.

Gardner blocked the attack with another cage. "It Has Been Stated:"

Chapter Two, page 8: This is the Duel of the Towers. [...] the Tower of Sorcery [...] the Tower of Light.

Taking energy from Gardner's cage, THALASSA caught Yoruichi-san's blade on her sickle edge:

Which Tower do you claim is not large enough to stand in? The Tower of Sorcery, or the Tower of Light?

----

Then, something truly unexpected happened. By taking two pieces of information out of context, Plasmid generated just enough evidence to attack another member of the Human Side!

Time Out is HERMETICUS, the Witch of Sighs

Since there wasn't even a rose to strike there, the blade whistled through air. But it counted as an attack on the Witch Side - a deliberate attempt to pry the veil of illusions from the events of 2011 - so the opposite side's Blue Truth rematerialized, ready to attack. Grudgingly, the Witch of Secrets slashed out with a quick Red Truth to shatter the blade:

By the rules these duels follow, the Witch Side is not required to respond to Blue Truths claiming that Witches are Humans of any kind.

As the duelists paused to make sense of Plasmid's strategic move, SHIN gestured with his scythe blade. "Remember how Dudeney had that typewriter as a Vessel? Maybe Witches have human Vessels, maybe they don't. This doesn't mean that the Witch and the Vessel are the same thing. The Opal Sorcerer is not Mark."

----

Then, charging his blade with powerful evidence, Molly Mae attacked THALASSA and took off several petals from her rose! It remained largely intact, but his strike was such that no block by the Witch or Gardner was remotely possible:

For the Witch of Secrets: These two alarms were, in fact, the same alarm!

Blue Truth effective.

----

With swift precision, Thalia followed up on that strike:

The Tower of Hapax and the Hapax Club are either the same or one contains the other.

THALASSA had expected this move, but still flinched away, losing another petal.

Blue Truth effective.

----

While disguising the Club as the Tower could have potentially fooled the Human Side, it seemed that it had drawn them closer to the answer. Some already suspected the truth, and needed only to amass their evidence.

The Tower of Light remained undamaged, however...

Edited by WitchOfSecrets
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

I have a theory about the Tower of Light, but I need evidence. I'm going to look back and see if I can find some.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

Chapter 2, Page 8: ...her Animate, Fanshawe of the Shining Eye. Fanshawe was a superb mimic, and could ape the voices of others with ease......The Cabinets of Miniatures, too, held a great many souls, but these required a conjurer's apparatus to summon.

Chapter 2, page 8: ...a Tower of Sorcery and inexplicable magic....a magical Tower of Light...

Chapter 2, page 11: The conveyance referenced runs on electricity!....Blue Truth effective.

A Witch's 'magic' is primarily electricity!

The wording of this BT is poor... =/

Edited by Molly Mae
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

("Sin", "shin", "hsin", or "xin?" With such options as these

Official transcribers do much as they please.

SHIN has one Chinese parent, but what of the other?

I'd hasten to note, we know only his mother.

Tradition, for some, has a powerful voice -

Hepburn, not Pinyin? Deliberate choice.)

----

Gardner blocked the attack with another cage. "It Has Been Stated:"

Taking energy from Gardner's cage, THALASSA caught Yoruichi-san's blade on her sickle edge:

Which Tower do you claim is not large enough to stand in? The Tower of Sorcery, or the Tower of Light?

----

Then, something truly unexpected happened. By taking two pieces of information out of context, Plasmid generated just enough evidence to attack another member of the Human Side!

----

Then, charging his blade with powerful evidence, Molly Mae attacked THALASSA and took off several petals from her rose! It remained largely intact, but his strike was such that no block by the Witch or Gardner was remotely possible:

Blue Truth effective.

----

]With shining financial prospects form the West to please, Entitled wealthy allowed them translations with ease, But in 1948 the people rose and took back their land, Now, and even more so in 2021, they write their chosen translation in a proud hand.

(I get the deliberate choice for the kid's name, and I respect that, but the character itself at least a billion ppl will tell you is Xin ;P)

Your refusal to address the statement directly and the confirmation of electricity is pretty good evidence. There's also the original description about being green and being surrounded by a conveyance of [electricity], and it being New Year's Eve.

A x-mas tree.

Someone post, s'il vous plait?

If we do this again I refuse to sit on the same side of table as Molly Mae. I'm allergic to flowers ;P.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

If we do this again I refuse to sit on the same side of table as Molly Mae. I'm allergic to flowers ;P.

I get what you mean. We know what the Tower of Light and the sacrifices are, but can't confirm them all at once. I'm trying to get some confirmations on things that don't pertain specifically to the Towers before this duel ends. =P And I totally wish I could trade spots with Flamebirde.

Edited by Molly Mae
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

The Crimson Apprentice slipped through the halls of the Tower, where old souls were bound for many purposes, and took note of her environs. . . There was the Room of Caged Minds, where mute Animates of great power revealed and dispatched messages of distant lands. . . And everywhere there were the Walls of Souls, where ancient minds awaited summoning. The Cabinets of Miniatures, too, held a great many souls, but these required a conjurer's apparatus to summon.

But before the Apprentice could think further on this, she heard footsteps approaching and ducked around a corner as two daemons approached. One was slender, the other portly, and both walked with measured confidence.

"The Mistress has forced long, wakeful hours upon us," grumbled the portly one. "To work thus on the eve of a new year is atrocious."

To Thalassa: The Wall of Souls and the "old souls" are books and bookshelves with the Cabinet of Miniatures being special books/resources/library things. The "daemons" are the night watch/security.

*Steps aside to allow Yuli or Y-san to strike*

Edited by Thalia
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

I'll let Y have a go. =P

I do have my next few BT's ready, though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

You can go ahead, MM. I'm still trying to determine what the "daemons" are. The fact that they can walk is throwing me off.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

Ann had given Nat the sealed envelopes containing the puzzles, but she had left the props with Margaret and Lana...

 The choice of my successor will be made

 Through one last game. My husband has agreed,

 As have my son and dearest confidants.

The Keeper of the Books will oversee;

 The Keeper of the Writ will bear my tools;

 The Ruby Sorcerer shall bear my words.

"Exactly eight people are represented by the guests at the Club. These so-called "pieces" are given these aliases:

...

Nat Viers Foreman

Nat Foreman is or represents the Ruby Sorcerer!

A reminder of predicting ochre.

For Y: Two security guards exist for the Tower: Exactly eight people are represented by the staff of the Club

Maria Brand, security guard

Sal Lucas, security guard

I note his use of the word "represented"

Edited by Molly Mae
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

I found the Club

And Tower tall

Three couples

Over entrance hall.

Two together

Two apart

Core of fruit?

Apple heart.

If the above is coincidence, I'd be surprised.

Edited by Molly Mae
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

A reminder of predicting ochre.

For Y: Two security guards exist for the Tower: Exactly eight people are represented by the staff of the Club

Maria Brand, security guard

Sal Lucas, security guard

I note his use of the word "represented"

Yes, but that seems way too easy. And there's the phrasing about "measured confidence" and whatnot that makes me think there's more to it.

I'd guess a computer (slender) and its monitor (portly), especially with the Fan-cell, but I think the fact that they are refered to as "daemons", not animates is significant.

Edited by Yoruichi-san
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

I found the Club

And Tower tall

Three couples

Over entrance hall.

Two together

Two apart

Core of fruit?

Apple heart.

If the above is coincidence, I'd be surprised.

Huh? Where did that come from? :help:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

Well here is an idea about the daemons:

something a witch may be able to see while a human can not:

Maria Brand, security guard - A security camera's "field of vision", the brightness going into its lens, not sure how to define this

Sal Lucas, security guard - Security laser, invisible to the human eye, one that will trigger some alarm if an intruder interrupts its path, again i dont know the correct term

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

Well here is an idea about the daemons:

something a witch may be able to see while a human can not:

Maria Brand, security guard - A security camera's "field of vision", the brightness going into its lens, not sure how to define this

Sal Lucas, security guard - Security laser, invisible to the human eye, one that will trigger some alarm if an intruder interrupts its path, again i dont know the correct term

Ooh I like that idea...

The laser fits nicely, but I'm not sure about the other. Maybe motion/infrared sensor?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

But before the Apprentice could think further on this, she heard footsteps approaching and ducked around a corner as two daemons approached. One was slender, the other portly, and both walked with measured confidence.

"The Mistress has forced long, wakeful hours upon us," grumbled the portly one. "To work thus on the eve of a new year is atrocious."

"Nobody can know," replied the other, coolly. "Would you wish for this to be discovered, were you in her position?"

...

"The gate's locked." The first demon smiled easily, reflecting on the last set of sacrifices. "Nobody will go back there until the time is right. Disappearances are commonplace here, in any case!"

Ducking further into the shadows as the guards passed by, the girl wondered just who - or what - was going to disappear...

Laser motion sensors and security cameras cannot speak, cannot cause footsteps, and cannot be hidden from until they pass by (Edit: well maybe a sweeping camera could, but not a laser). So since Molly took the latest swing and our side's up:

Witch of Secrets: the daemons are alive

As a side question, need we spoilerize stuff, particularly blue truth questions? It makes it slightly more cumbersome to read through, and this seems like it will need to be a team effort.

Edited by plasmid
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

Nat Foreman is or represents the Ruby Sorcerer!

Nat fiddled with his gloves as he considered his answer. He had many reasons, some of which he preferred not to share. "It isn't the same without her. If she decided to give away her title, I don't need mine anymore, do I? I'll play this last game in her memory."

I'll let someone else have a go. I've got quite a bit to actually work out.

Edited by Molly Mae
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

So now we're using info from the old threads?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

Laser motion sensors and security cameras cannot speak, cannot cause footsteps, and cannot be hidden from until they pass by (Edit: well maybe a sweeping camera could, but not a laser). So since Molly took the latest swing and our side's up:

Witch of Secrets: the daemons are alive

As a side question, need we spoilerize stuff, particularly blue truth questions? It makes it slightly more cumbersome to read through, and this seems like it will need to be a team effort.

It might be helpful to read about the animates from earlier. Dudeney, for example, was a typewriter but appeared to be able to move around. Daemons could be different but if you are using that to say that they can't possibly be sensor and camera, I would disagree.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

It might be helpful to read about the animates from earlier. Dudeney, for example, was a typewriter but appeared to be able to move around. Daemons could be different but if you are using that to say that they can't possibly be sensor and camera, I would disagree.

I'm not sure they're alive, just making a case for them being alive to try to get the witches to counter if it's false or confirm if it's true. I could have produced the same effect by saying they aren't alive and ask the witches to counter that. But it's much easier to find evidence that they are alive than it is to find evidence that they're not alive, without naming specific objects that they might be and producing a weaker attack with the blue.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

Well, might as well put it in blue.

Using the evidence presented

The Tower of Light is a X-mas Tree.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

Nat Foreman is or represents the Ruby Sorcerer!

I get the feeling the witches might tell you the same thing they told me when I tried to incriminate TimeOut =P

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

(I was working late on a gift for a friend today; I'll be posting tomorrow!)

Edited by WitchOfDoubt
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

I get the feeling the witches might tell you the same thing they told me when I tried to incriminate TimeOut =P

I'm half expecting that, but I do have a plan and my questions do end up coming back around to the Tower...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted · Report post

From Chapter 1

As for the riddles on Foreman's sheet, the guests found reasonable answers for both, though some debate remained about the second. However, if anyone was unsure of the riddle in the safe - and a few highly original theories were devised - the matter was settled as soon as they took a second look at the model railroad.

The tracks were glued down to the table, forming a loop that circled a green pyramid, which glittered and flashed with multicolored lights. At several locations, the track abruptly stopped and restarted, leaving a total of eight gaps. If the set were turned on as it was, the train would certainly go off the rails. However, eight boxes sat on the table, and inside of each was a hand-painted diorama of a train station, perfectly sized to fit in one of the gaps.

Witch of Doubt: The green tower and the conveyance running on electricity are no longer mysteries

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted (edited) · Report post

Like many young people, I'd assumed the world—the physical reality of stores, restaurant locations, apartment buildings, and movie theaters and the kind of people who lived in this or that neighborhood—was far more stable than it was.

Evidence: tracks were glued down to the table, forming a loop that circled a green pyramid, which glittered and flashed with multicolored lights

Evidence: Chapter 2, Page 8, Post 73:The Crimson Apprentice slipped through the halls of the Tower, where old souls were bound for many purposes, and took note of her environs. There was the Great Entry, with its grand stairway and shining tower of green, which was surrounded by a conveyance propelled by neither horse nor steam nor gasoline.

Evidence: Chapter 2, Page 8, Post 73:Within the Tower of Sorcery stands a magical Tower of Light, where sacrificial offerings are made.

For SHIN: The Tower of Light is the Times Square Ball and the events at the Hapax Tower and Hapax Club occurred in Manhattan!

Edited by Molly Mae
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.