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TMM VIII: Tom and Jerry Mafia

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@Sak: It doesn't make sense to think Plasmid is a baddie at all. Kristmark said there is no such thing as a self-block and since Plasmid was blocked, he can't be Butch who acted last night :/ And Tole claimed Jerry and no one is counterclaiming at all so basically you want two people who are not baddies dead? This doesn't make sense :/ unless you are a baddie :/

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Aaahhhh.... m going mad reading more than 12 pages of HUGE posts... saying COMPLICATED stuff....i just came onlyn now.... will post sometym in the next four hours or so... after thinking through things.....

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You're twisting my words. I said if I were a baddie, I would kill Jerry. And yes, I think told is lying about being Jerry. I don't see any reason why Jerry would counterclaim, as I've pointed out extensively. And I also said that I know my action was redirected, and two other players claim to know the same thing. Also, the host has apparently confirmed that Meathead CAN'T be redirected, so there goes tole's whole theory. Provided no one interferes, something of interest should be learned soon.

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*sigh* I've made my role quite clear, Sak. I've dropped several OBVIOUS hints, and at least three people know who I'm claiming. And there have been no counterclaims, which means I really am who I claim to be. Now, if only you were willing to find my hints...

@mboon and tra: plas has helped me some. can you guys help me more? [you were the two others who got my hint, right?]

Not all people who get your hints may immediately say that they get them. ;) ...Since this is mafia some may even say that they've missed every hint that has been out there....but dont you bother about them...we wont let you get lynched ^_^

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tole definitely did NOT redirect me.

And I also said that I know my action was redirected, and two other players claim to know the same thing.

I'm confused s-chan....you say tole definitely did NOT redirect you... yet you say you know your action was redirected...if you were redirected, how are you so sure tole didnt do it....unless kris told you which is highly unlikely

Does a person get to know who redirected them??

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But still, he's a goodie. Killing him means less of a chance of filling the goodie wincon.

*sigh* I've made my role quite clear, Sak. I've dropped several OBVIOUS hints, and at least three people know who I'm claiming. And there have been no counterclaims, which means I really am who I claim to be. Now, if only you were willing to find my hints...

@mboon and tra: plas has helped me some. can you guys help me more? [you were the two others who got my hint, right?]

As cat said not everyone will tell if they got the hints ;) (we are now :P )

You're twisting my words. I said if I were a baddie, I would kill Jerry. And yes, I think told is lying about being Jerry. I don't see any reason why Jerry would counterclaim, as I've pointed out extensively. And I also said that I know my action was redirected, and two other players claim to know the same thing. Also, the host has apparently confirmed that Meathead CAN'T be redirected, so there goes tole's whole theory. Provided no one interferes, something of interest should be learned soon.

SC u are confusing me and all of us,cz the real jerry would be very very stupid if he doesn't counterclaim tol ,cz now i believe him and i think most of us do too.

BTW: i'll try to be active but not like yesterday cz i didn't study anything :P ,i'll try to be here once and a while ,but i'll try to hurry so i can play much more :D

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I too will not be talking very much today. I talked a lot yesterday and it resulted in a lot of unnecessary posts - so I will likely only address questions or requests for clarification made directly to me and generally won't respond to posts that make speculations about my role claim or the likelihood or reasonableness of my death :D I think that's a dead horse (or a dying horse - nonetheless we should stop beating it).

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So, just reread a bunch of stuff. From the day post - there was three way tie - so Tom used the VM to create a three way tie? Huh?

Unless maybe he/she was worried about a vote coming off of either Sak-C or Cat (a flash un-vote, so to speak) and bumped up Tole to make sure it was a tie?

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I've already said over and over why it would be unwise for Jerry to counter-claim. No good can come from it.

If everyone knows who MissKitten is, how about someone drops a more obvious hint?O_o

And I thought Tom didn't manipulate the votes that we know of?

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I've already said over and over why it would be unwise for Jerry to counter-claim. No good can come from it.

the opposite ,it's very dangerous if Jerry doesn't cz we will be thinking being safe with 1 goodie known ,so if Jerry doesn't we (goodies) will loose the game 100%

If everyone knows who MissKitten is, how about someone drops a more obvious hint?O_o

i think hint means not to be very obvious if not it won't be called hint ;)

got to continue my HW,will check in about 15min

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I didn't notice any hints.@_@

You may think it's better, but I still don't. Jerry should stay hidden.

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Well, now we trust Tole because no one is contradicting her :/ So if Jerry is not Tole then Jerry should out himself/herself because then we would know to RID Tole :/ At this point the only possible person other than Tole being Jerry is Sakura because everyone else seems to agree that Jerry come out if Tole is not Jerry. So Sakura, are you Jerry?

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That's silly.O_o Why should Jerry take that risk and hand himself over to the Mafia. We should not trust Tole yet. Too many people have cast doubt on her statements. Come to think of it, weren't you one of those people?

I never reveal my role easily.O_o If I were Jerry, I certainly wouldn't reveal it at this point.

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SK u are making us loose the game ,i don't want to waste all the game trying to figure if Trol is a jerry or not.

i see that u don't know how to play mafia,cz we have wasted a cycle without knowing a single thing ,and i'm telling all of u ,if we don't get real we are loosing easily. each night but a NK.

WE need to stop the who is jerry thing and add some more discussions .

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so why no response yet ,u are online ,so are u getting advices from ur BTSC friends and please tell them to play,it's a very stupid game not having a think going on!

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I find it pretty odd that you are targeting me. I know how to play Mafia, quite well. I'm not the one who started us focusing on Jerry. What else were we supposed to talk about? We have nothing else to go on but what happens in this thread.

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It's getting wierder. Weren't mboon and Hidden-the two people now defending tole-the two who said they knew that I wasn't the one redirected?O_o

If you have nothing to hide, you will surrender the G!

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The whole point is... we are stuck in this situation ,that we all want to understand what Tol is jerry and u keep saying no,So PLEASE if u are Jerry u must tell ,u can save yourself from NK by redirecting the save from Cockoo.

if u are not we must accept it that Tol is jerry ,and must try to figure others roles.

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I only doubted Tole being Jerry until Krist confirmed that there are multiple redirects, a "special" redirect, I should say. Now that we know that redirects do not appear explicitly on NP we cannot know for sure who was or was not redirected. So it's now your word (that you were not redirected) against Tole's (that she redirected you to Plasmid, which means you are not Meathead since Block>Redirect). Since both of your and Tole's words create a contradiction, one of you must be a baddie, so you are either a goodie or Butch. And if Jerry comes out we can lynch Tole during the Day or RID her (though she could be either Butch or Meathead, there's nothing that I can see that says one over the other).

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I guess I don't really understand OOA very well (okay, I already knew that I don't have a 100% grasp of it) but I thought when it says Block>redirect that means that:

if A (blocker) blocked B (redirect) who was redirecting A to C = the block would win and B would be blocked and the redirect would fail, BUT

if A (blocker) blocked C (not redirect) and B (redirect) redirected A to D then the redirect would go through and A would block D.

Since this is a trainer mafia I feel not so stupid asking, since it counts as training!

This assumption (one of many) is why I thought I could have redirected Meathead (block) to plasmid since no one was blocking me. Can someone educate me?

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I only doubted Tole being Jerry until Krist confirmed that there are multiple redirects, a "special" redirect, I should say. Now that we know that redirects do not appear explicitly on NP we cannot know for sure who was or was not redirected. So it's now your word (that you were not redirected) against Tole's (that she redirected you to Plasmid, which means you are not Meathead since Block>Redirect). Since both of your and Tole's words create a contradiction, one of you must be a baddie, so you are either a goodie or Butch. And if Jerry comes out we can lynch Tole during the Day or RID her (though she could be either Butch or Meathead, there's nothing that I can see that says one over the other).

Is there an additional redirect or special redirect/mirroring power that Tom has or do we think a redirect on a block bounces to someone random? I wasn't clear on where that debate ended...

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