TMM VIII: Tom and Jerry Mafia

[plasmid]

I'm glad that kristmark1's post #218 proves that I'm not a baddie, although I admit that I don't yet have proof that I'm not Tom. My reasons for changing my votes were explained in posts 98 and 119, and I will not dwell on them much more. I will just say that I'm now pretty sure 'cat' is not a baddie, so I'm glad I didn't lynch him as a goodie on the first day in two consecutive games.

Since we have two NKs, and only a handful of people who are highly suspicious to be baddies, I propose that Spike should try to RID Meathead and Tuffy should try to RID Butch. That ensures that both of our RIDs do not target the same person as the same role.

Tole said she redirected S-chan onto me which made her suspect that S-chan is Meathead. I asked kristmark1 earlier about what happens if Jerry tries to redirect Meathead, and he said that OOP of baddies > goodies means that Meathead's redirect would take precedence so he would NOT be redirected by Jerry. I don't have any reason to doubt that Tole's telling the truth about redirecting S-chan onto me, I'm just saying that Jerry's redirect will not affect Meathead, so you should consider other possibilities (either S-chan does not have a night action that can be redirected, or maybe she is Meathead but targeted me of her own volition instead of being redirected onto me). However, the fact that Jerry's redirect did not appear in the night post makes me think that Jerry tried to act on someone who he is not able to redirect, so my last recommendation for now is that Spike try to RID S-chan as Meathead. S-chan, if you are Tyke and that's why Jerry's redirect didn't go through, then you can recommend that Spike try to target someone else. Edit: grammar

Edited October 3, 2011 by plasmid

[MissKitten]

Wow... So many posts..... Will do, plas. Gracias.

[MissKitten]

Okay, when I got on last, I wasn't able to actively figure out what the heck was going on. Does anubody mind giving me a short synopsis of who accused who, who claimed who, who counterclaimed who, etc.?

Also, kris, I know it's probably a bit too late, but can you push the NP back half an hour? If at all possible? I would greatly appreciate it if you could.

Also, I won't be available for about 19 hours or so after this, so yeah, don't try and use my lack of convo to target me. Hopefully, more people than just plas and Tra know who I am.

And Sak, [this is the only post I told myself to reply to] WIFOM is explained within the first 5 pages of the thread. Go find it. Cuz if you don't learn WIFOM early on in the game that is mafia, you will perish in the rounds to come.

['Cat'astrophe]

I However, the fact that Jerry's redirect did not appear in the night post makes me think that Jerry tried to act on someone who he is not able to redirect,

I dont think redirect is supposed to appear in the NP....

[mboon]

Possibly... I'm not giving any clues though.

Anyway, only NK, RID Kill, Spy and Block will show up in the night post. If a save will only show up if it actually saved somebody.

I also might include clues about weather or not certain characters acted - you'll see later on.

It does not show up in NP but Krist did use the words "tried" and "accidentally" in N1 NP which may show redirects or something...and Miki, I understand you I hope you don't misunderstand me :/

[plasmid]

It does not show up in NP but Krist did use the words "tried" and "accidentally" in N1 NP which may show redirects or something...and Miki, I understand you I hope you don't misunderstand me :/

That's a good catch, mboon. I don't think that kristmark was hinting at a redirect in the NP. Tole claimed she's Jerry and redirected S-chan onto me, while tyke "accidentally" blocked MiKi and not me. Meathead was blocking me instead of redirecting, so he couldn't be the reason for the "accidentally". So either kristmark1 wasn't really trying to hint that tyke was redirected to block MiKi, or else tole was lying about redirecting s-chan onto me. Oh, also block > redirect on the OOP, so I'm pretty sure Jerry can't redirect Tyke. So I don't think that kristmark wasn't hinting at a redirect.

But you are right: since redirects don't necessarily show up in the night post I need to redo my calculations, because I used the absence of Jerry's redirect in the nightpost as evidence that s-chan was not redirectable.

[Guest]

Ok, well we know that....

(1) Plasmid is not a baddie. He was blocked by Meathead and Kris said no self blocks were allowed. Butch acted after plasmid was blocked, ergo...plasmid not a baddie. Could still be Tom.

(2) Miki is not Butch (spy) as that action went through and she was blocked. We also know she is not Tyke as self-blocks are not allowed per Kris.

(3) Tole has claimed Jerry, no one has counterclaimed. However, there is a lot of back and forth about who was redirected or not that I can't boil down to a straight "one of these two people is lying" as there are possible (if improbable) explanations that multiple people could be telling the truth.

Plasmid, on first pass I agree with your suggested actions for the RID kill, not sure about where the block/save/redirect stuff should be done. Though obviously the save would not want to announce their intentions! Maybe leave some of that up to people's judgement?

[plasmid]

Yeah, sometimes people show extremely good judgement by not listening to me anyway =P

[MissKitten]

Okay. Thanks, smoth. And mboon, it's nice to know you got it, though I'm having trouble understanding who you are claiming.... I dunno. I'll reread allth is crap tomorrow when my brain is not muddled because of the notes I'm taking on my SS chapter. [screw you, history! Screw you! *has a mental breakdown after trying to process mafia on top of crapload of homework* ]

[Guest]

I'm not happy that no one is willing to take the five seconds to tell me what that abbreviation means, instead expecting me to go sifting through pages and posts on this weak computer of mine. I'm not going to do that.

I've already told you I wasn't redirected. I'm a good guy. And Meathead probably wasn't redirected. The host said he made a mistake and accidentally put the wrong name down.

[MissKitten]

*sigh* Fine. I'll do it , even though I'm neck deep in homework as it is since you're obviously not willing to read through five simple pages of posts. And just FYI, if you're not willing to do that, how have you read through the crapload of stuff that's been posted to date? This is easily the longest TMM I've seen. You could easily rival curr3nt in how long you guys make the mafia threads.

This is my fave defintion of WIFOM in the year or so I've been playing mafia. It's the easiest to understand, and makes the most sense. I also like the book that the movie was based off of, so that doesn't hurt either. BTW: This was on page 7. It wasn't that hard to find.

WIFOM: v. to try to out-think your opponent in a way that leads to circular logic.

Example: if a goodie makes it look like he will save player X then the baddies would not want to target player X, so the goodie has no more reason to save player X and should not target player X, but if the baddies realize that the goodie should not target player X then they should target player X, so the goodie really does need to save player X after all, but now the baddies know that player X will be saved and so will not target him... (that goes on for a while)

Derivation: WIFOM (or WiFoM) stands for Wine in Front of Me, and refers to a scene from the Princess Bride where the hero takes out two goblets of wine and tells the villain that one of them is poisoned, and they are to each choose one to drink. The villain uses this sort of circular logic for several iterations before picking one. In the end, the villain drinks from his goblet and dies, and we learn it's not because he picked the wrong goblet, but because both goblets were poisoned and the hero had built up an immunity to that poison over the past few years.

Moral: you should start taking tiny non-lethal doses of arsenic now just in case you end up in a posioned-wine-drinking contest with a villain.

[mboon]

There's a special action which is most likely a redirect at this point in time, though that may change, and I think it was Tom who had the special ability :/ I also know "accident" was a hint of a redirect like action :/ Also the N1 NP doesn't say that you, Plasmid, were Tyke's target.

[Guest]

I read through stuff as it happens. I'm not asking someone else to look it up. I just think Cat should have posted it when I asked, since she was the one who used it and suggested I did it.

Any bets on who will be targeted tonight?O_o

[Hidden G]

listen i can't continue reading cz i'm on my way to school but i want to tell u plas N1 i was redirected so maybe Tom had a redirect.

i'll be here after about 8 hrs and will reread from the day post! bye

and thx tom by not vote maniping(but Cat how did u know ? )

Edited October 4, 2011 by Hidden G

[Guest]

Well, her name is CAT.O_O

[MissKitten]

Fine, I accept that. But in order to play efficiently in future mafias, you're gonna have to accept that you're gonna have to read through a lot of stuff to find info on people. For example, if you wanna know my hint, you're gonna have to read thorugh 24 pages of stuff to find my hint(s).

And besides, the first WIFOM reference was on page 5, not by Cat. When we were discussing it, why didn't you read it? Because I do believe that there was a full two or three pages worth of talk on WIFOM.

As to who will be targeted, I think that the RID will definitely target either you, cat, or tole to find your role. I think Quacker should definitely day spy eother tole, cat, or you tomorrow. Baddies are gonna do what they always do: kill a goodie. I think they'll go for either plasmid, cuz he's just too good, me, cuz I have some experience. I think you're safe, though, because you're either a baddy yourself, or because you're causing a lot of suspicion as to who's who and essentially protecting the baddies. Unless by some crazy chance, tole really is a baddy and you somehow totally called it. In that case, she'll probably NK you to get rid of the suspicion against her. But now that I've said that, she may try some kind of WIFOM by not NK-ing you and trying to get us to believe that she's a goodie, and therefore didn't kill you because you were posing no threat to her. Other than that, I really dunno.

[MissKitten]

Ahaha! Wouldn't it be funny if Tom really was either me, plas, or cat? That would be so ironic and so funny at the same time! [it's late. I'm running on adrenaline. Don't judge me.]

[Guest]

I read through things just fine. I know how to play effectively.

If it were me, I'd probably NK tole.O_o If she's not a baddie, then she's claiming Jerry, who is a troublesome role even for the good guys.

[plasmid]

MiKi, I am quite confident that cat is just as good as you are, so to speak, and no one has countered tole's claim of being Jerry so I am not too suspicious of her right now. While I still have insufficient data for firm conclusions, my leading suspicions for the baddies / indie are currently tra, smoth, and s-chan.

[MissKitten]

And how? Jerry's still a goodie, regardless of his role. Heck, he could be a vanilla and we would still try to save him, if only because it meant we would be in the game for one more day. Your play here is reminding me of your play in the other TMM we played together, when you were a baddie. You try to push for deaths, even when they're not necessary. You basically ignore all suspicions on you, or throw out a really generic defense, while confusing the rest of us into thinking that someone else is a baddy. You're on my radar now, sakura.

[MissKitten]

Okay. I trust your judgment, plas. I just hope you really are a goodie. *not on top of her game this mafia*

[Guest]

I still say tole and Plasmid are baddies.

What do you mean "how"?O_o Jerry redirects. Really that ability can only cause trouble for the good guys, even if it's used on the bad guys. He can mess up our actions or results and end up blocking an innocent or who knows what else.

And you've no room to talk, MissKitten.O_o I have my suspicions about you as well.

[MissKitten]

But still, he's a goodie. Killing him means less of a chance of filling the goodie wincon.

*sigh* I've made my role quite clear, Sak. I've dropped several OBVIOUS hints, and at least three people know who I'm claiming. And there have been no counterclaims, which means I really am who I claim to be. Now, if only you were willing to find my hints...

@mboon and tra: plas has helped me some. can you guys help me more? [you were the two others who got my hint, right?]

[MissKitten]

Okay, I've finally finished my hw, so have no reason to stay up late anymore. I have to go now, for sleep and school and what not, but I'll try and get back on ASAP, which will probably be around 15-16 hours from now. Night all!

[Guest]

I've read all your posts, but I clearly missed your hints.O_o Either way, I know you're one of two roles. And I said I would kill tole if I were a bad guy, so I'm not sure how that makes me look guilty. Unless she ends up dying.O_o