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UN Mafia II


araver
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Araver, if the baddies are eliminated does anyone assigned to UN Alliance win regardless of wincon being met?

Ammendment so that you might actually answer that.

Baddies could be including Sweden if secret wincon would prevent a UN Alliance when after Secret Alliance eliminated.

So if the game doesn't end after the Secret Alliance is gone you know you have to kill me.

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1. Besides individual WinCon + leaving, there is also the generic Group WinCon:

So you can still win as a group, even if individual WinCon is no longer available.

2. Tricky. That is a secret WinCon :P

No, the game does not end. Sweden has an individual secret WinCon just like everyone else. Once it is fulfilled, Sweden can try to leave the game, just like everyone else. There is also an alternative (also secret) which roughly corresponds to the group WinCon that the other players have (see 1 above)

Answer to Vine's similiar question to tide you over until Araver responds again. So I have an individual and a roughly group type wincon.

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Can anyone prove or counter

Me claiming Sweden

Hirkala claiming USA

maurice claiming Rusia

Golf claiming Germany

Thalia claiming England

Suspecting that Solman is Spain which makes Molly Argentina

If true then that would make Framm Israel or a baddie being weird. (Baddies do kill their own at times)

That leaves Marq and Shadow as baddies or on the off chance Israel

This is why it is important to know who Marq is.

If he is China and no one counters the assumptions then Shadow is Iran. If Marq is Iran then great! If Marq is neither then we know who is lying from the assumption.

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Araver, if the baddies are eliminated does anyone assigned to UN Alliance win regardless of wincon being met?

As it is said in the rules:

- When a single faction manages to eliminate all other players, there's no one stopping them to leave the game. This bypasses individual WinCons.

It does not say dead people win, it says regardless of individual WinCon you can leave if the other factions are dead.

Araver, can Sweden arrest the same person twice in a row?

Yes.

Ammendment so that you might actually answer that.

Baddies could be including Sweden if secret wincon would prevent a UN Alliance when after Secret Alliance eliminated.

A little confused why this amendment would be useful for answering the first question.

As I said, when one faction wipes out the other players, there is no one stopping them to leave the game.

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I am curious as to why you yet to vote, curr. I'm gonna be honest, part of why I have yet to switch votes is because I'm curious at to who you will vote for. araver's answer (edit - not this most recent post )has me wondering if Sweden was in fact Framm. I know you debunked that somewhere, but you have posted far too many times for me to recall what you said or even where it may be. Mayhaps you'll refresh my memory.

Keep in mind, curr that part of the reason that some have not countered your claims (our hints, but why they were hints) is because the baddies can use it against us. For example, if they know who Sweden is and they roll a redirect, then they can trap whomever they choose. So, claiming Sweden at night after the roll (despite what it is) could cause Framm to be hesitant to counter your claim. I know I'd be worried that you had a redirect and wanted to know who I was. And if you knew Framm was Sweden and were planning on killing him...

Anyhoozle, awaiting your vote, and quite frankly some others as well.

Edited by maurice
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Hooded Figure: Araver

1. Molly Mae

2. Hirkala - arrested by Sweden - cannot vote or be voted during D2.

3. maurice - voting for curr3nt

4. Thalia

5. curr3nt - voting for Marq

6. Framm - Killed by the Secret Alliance

7. Shadow7

8. solman - voting for Molly Mae

9. golfjunkie

10. Marq

11. Vineetrika - Lynched and found to be Australia

Maurice wants me to vote so guessing Marq is Iran until told otherwise.

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You told me Sweden can't arrest the same person twice in a row. Is Sweden only allowed to arrest the same person twice if redirected the second time?

:lol: Getting a host to admit what he said or did not say is ... :P

Sweden cannot target the same person twice in a row by submitting the action "Arrest X" in two consecutive nights. (sorry if my message above was unclear). Sweden can however arrest the same person twice in a row if it is redirected since Redirect >> Arrest.

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Four of "my" claims are not mine. Hirkala, Golf, Thalia and your claims came from your actions during the day.

Hirkala, Golf and Thalia were straight from statements made. Yours was more round about. I'm not sold that you are Russia yet. Golf and Thalia are still solid either.

I didn't know for sure at first but now I know Hirkala is UN for sure.

-----

I know why no one said much during the night. As for countering or adding to them during the day, no one else has been posting or voting except you and Solman. And Solman was nice enough to counter a claim by going against Molly.

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:lol: Getting a host to admit what he said or did not say is ... :P

Sweden cannot target the same person twice in a row by submitting the action "Arrest X" in two consecutive nights. (sorry if my message above was unclear). Sweden can however arrest the same person twice in a row if it is redirected since Redirect >> Arrest.

So the only way for Sweden to stop USA from using RID Kill is for Iran to redirect. Iran could also redirect England to stop USA. Since USA can't die N3 Iran is the only baddie that CAN stop USA.

Hence the reason I want to lynch Iran. Hence the reason I hadn't voted yet because I do not know who Iran is but I think others could help catch them. I was waiting for someone that knew something to get on and say something.

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Also maurice. Solman pointed out to me that some of the reasons I thought you were Russia could have been actions of a baddie. As I see it only Russia spying Hirkala or a baddie could have been so sure of Hirkala that early in the day.

Based upon everything I believe you are either Russia or China (or a baddie and power played China's vote mod) If other player posting activity is to be any judge... it is seeming to be less likely that both Russia and China were active enough to know how to change votes at the end of the day.

Occum's razor would have you as baddie since taking a vote from you and putting it on Vine is the easiest means of lynching Vine.

I thought you were Russia because you were believing that I was Sweden because I thought it reasonable that you would spy me. Now you are questioning who I am?

If you didn't spy me then who did you spy?

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To perserve Araver's host neutrality. I have and do ask question about other roles in my convo with him.

My reference to the answer he already gave me is not to be taken as the host supporting my claim at being Sweden. Only that I did in fact ask that question in the convo before asking it here.

Thank you for your understanding.

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Hooded Figure: Araver

1. Molly Mae

2. Hirkala - arrested by Sweden - cannot vote or be voted during D2.

3. maurice - voting for curr3nt

4. Thalia

5. curr3nt - voting for Marq

6. Framm - Killed by the Secret Alliance

7. Shadow7

8. solman - voting for Molly Mae

9. golfjunkie

10. Marq- Voting for Curr3nt

11. Vineetrika - Lynched and found to be Australia

Curr3nt...I dont know where some of your surmises are coming from but I do know that you are in error in at least two of them..Also with ALL the verbosity..I am beginning to wonder at YOUR claim..theres such a thing as a smoke screen and then theres a forest fire....

Edited by Marq
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Bad move Marq.

Hirkala is claiming USA because he said his action was unsuccessful AND he mentions a spy result.

Golf is claiming Germany because he too said he was unsuccessful and USA is taken.

Thalia is claiming England because she said she didn't have an action.

I have Maurice as Russia because I suspected him of spying Hirkala and vote mod.

I have Solman as Spain because he objects to Molly being Spain and didn't object to Golf or Thalia. (I also know he is UN.)

I have Molly as Argentina because I know he was spied as Spain and SOlman objected. This is supported by Hirkala questioning a spy result. Since Spain is the only result that is not conclusive.

---

If you knew two of these were wrong then you would be questioning them as well as me. You didn't. You didn't even bother mentioning which ones were wrong. You don't have to give the roles just which two do you know are wrong?

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Let me go get the quotes again to show you where they are coming from.

Hirkala-

Oh, I have votes. That's a bad idea. Don't vote for me! LOL

Ok, real defense...

My action didn't show in the night post. It would if it were successful, but it wasn't. Please don't make this like last game and out me D1... I know it worked out for me that time, but I really don't think it would this game.

Hirkala with bonus reference to Molly being spied as Spain

Ok... I told you I was gonna be killed. DO NOT LYNCH ME!!!

I need to find out if the spy was accurate!

Golf

okay, so once again, voting for an inactive is a bad idea. I acted last night, but was unsuccessful. Hopefully tonight will bring success. Mo and Hirk, your supposed voting for each other, then coalescing into a cohesive team has me worried. Give me a reason not to vote for you.

edit: adding Shadow's vote.

what time does the day end?

Thalia

I could say that I didn't do anything. That doesn't mean anyone will believe me. I can hope though. :rolleyes: There's not much to base accusations on at this point and I'm not quite seeing how Hirkala's argument makes sense. Failure to succeed in an action doesn't mean you are not bad.

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@Marq - Which goodie would know that two were wrong. One I can understand but two?

I do not see how Germany could learn a second role.

Being England means you spied yourself.

Being Israel means you redirected yourself.

Being USA means you know Hirkala isn't and what Molly was spied as.

Being Spain would mean you know Solman isn't Spain and how could your message have gotten to someone N1?

Being Russia means you would know maurice wasn't Russia and maybe another depending on who Israel redirected you to.

---

I would very much believe Solman over you so that leaves Russia. If maurice isn't Russia then who else could he be but a baddie?

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