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@curr3nt - I'm not saying Hirkala was redirected to himself by the baddies. I'm assuming Hirkala was redirected to himself by the baddies. Self-redirects are the most likely.

You don't have to take my word for that. Look at it from a neutral PoV (or your point of view):

1. Assume Hirk is a goodie or the indy. Baddies don't know what is Hirk's ability. They sure as hell won't redirect him to another baddie. Least worries: redirect to himself and see the result - depending if he appears in the night-post or not you narrow down his abilities. Best case: Hirk is Masters you'll see someone trap Hirk and you'll know who to RID Recruit.

2. Assume Hirk is a baddie. Why redirect him to someone else?

- A redirecter(Curly) can't be redirected to himself with visible consequences in the night-post. He can redirect himself to someone else, but that would create some weird loops and actually not get anyone redirected in the process.

- A spy/RID Recruit (Johnny) redirected to someone else makes some sense, but also means a redirect lost and not a very clear cover for Hirk to be a goodie.

- A baddie block (Ike) redirected to himself is kinda revealing in the night-post (and we know that did not happen). Also, a tie means Hirk is not Ike.

- A baddie vote manipulator (Billy) redirected to anyone is basically the same as above - redirect lost and not a very clear cover for Hirk.

Again, nothing in the redirect, the block or the night-post explain why Hirk was no outed.

Is this making anyone else's head spin? Is this starting to be enough proof that araver is a baddie? He wants an indy (based on early post but possibly goodie per this one) who hasn't done anything to the goodies yet (even went along with a plan to get Ike outed) killed by the goodies before a suspected baddie.

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Sorry for all the double posting. Trying to avoid editing.

When is someone replaced for inactivity?

benjer3 was last on Jan 30 2011 10:34 PM. Would rather not go into the night with a chance of a goodie being inactive.

Working on this. :thumbsup:

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Is this making anyone else's head spin? Is this starting to be enough proof that araver is a baddie? He wants an indy (based on early post but possibly goodie per this one) who hasn't done anything to the goodies yet (even went along with a plan to get Ike outed) killed by the goodies before a suspected baddie.

Suit yourself. I have been told in the past that I post too much logical arguments and make exhaustive proofs (hard to read). Can't help myself, this is who I am. If there is a logical explanation, no matter how long it will take me to get others to see it, I will still try to make it. I always assumed BrainDen attracts the kind of people that can verify logical arguments *shrug*

Again, key-point is the fact Hirk was not outed in the day-post. This alone is proof that he is neither baddie nor goodie since neither can save someone from a lynch and prevent him from being outed. And Hirk was blocked last night. Which means it's either a passive ability (invulnerability) or an ability which takes precedence over blocking (which I doubt, but would still make sense if baddies redirected him to himself).

So, from my point of view, Hirk is outed as the Indy - and at least one of his abilities is also outed. No idea on his WinCon.

I don't expect to live much longer after this, but I think it was worth the price.

PS: The only unfortunate downside to my move is that I kinda expected Ike to be outed by the day-post as being in the tie.

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Host: maurice

1. Blablah - dead, outdrawn by Johnny Ringo

2. MollyMae

3. Oboe Passion

4. Hirkala

5. curr3nt

6. slick

7. onetruth

8. Vineetrika

9. Panther

10. Darth Legion

11. EDM

12. Araver

13. Glycereine

14. young

benjer out, Darth Legion in

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Night ends in just over 6.5 hours for those of you who still have not sent actions.

A warning...we've been having rolling blackouts...i can still log in from my phone but won't post the night post from it, so there is a slight possibility of a delay...but again as I have my phone I'll keep you up to date...

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actually Araver's defense was logical and what I expected because I assumed hirkala was the indy after the day post.

Hirk's defense/accusation however was also what I expected from an almost-exposed baddie.

I no longer recommend Texas Jack killing Araver.

@Texas Jack - recommend a stay of execution. Only kill if you know of someone or are confident in Araver's assertment that Hirkala is bad/indie (I agree but not enough to TELL you to kill him, in your hands now).

Also I will most likely die tonight. Don't waste a lynch or Hirkala as he appears immune.

You know my suspicions.

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Well I don't know about anyone else but I am slightly confused :wacko:

Hurrah! I am not the only one. Unless you are saying that to make me think I am not the only one where in fact I am the only one. Least I have the voices in my head to keep me company.

-----

araver has had the time to explain why he is not a baddie but has instead been trying to point us at Hirk as indy. Do the goodies want to do what a likely baddie wants them to and take out the "indy"? I guess Texas should go for araver unless anyone else has a better suggestion.

Do we have a second target for Morgan in case of a shot at EDM? (Gly's suggestion) EDM said a bunch of nothing when she posted. Did she miss the talk of possibly targeting her 1-2 pages behind where she posted?

Do we sic Morgan on araver too just in case Texas is blocked or even already dead?

-----

If the next game host wants to be evil they should put all the most active people on one team. I think it would be hilarious to see a team with BTSC talking to each other in the thread.

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actually Araver's defense was logical and what I expected because I assumed hirkala was the indy after the day post.

Logical that Hirkala is indy. Yes.

Logical on why we should go for Hirkala instead of him. I do not see it.

Either he is a baddie and wants the goodies to ignore the baddies N2. Or he is a goodie and flash voted Hirkala...why?

araver said in post #154

PS: The only unfortunate downside to my move is that I kinda expected Ike to be outed by the day-post as being in the tie.

How can he expect Ike to be outed by flash voting Hirkala? By him switching it changed to a 50/50 chance to outing Ike. Only the one that lost the coin toss and was shot would be officially outed. The one that switched would be unoffically outed as a baddie but not which one.

Did he mean the day post saying that Ike was the one not shot in the tie? We could likely figure that by there being a tie. Knowing Ike was part of the tie wouldn't tell us who Ike was.

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usually in a tie the host says who the two people are... like

"it seemed Hirkala was going to be lynched but suddenly curr3nt was brought up on stage as well. A coin was tossed and GM decided Hirkala would die."

I completely understand Araver's assumption that the tied parties would be exposed but with a role like Ike's I probably wouldn't expose it either.

that said. araver's defense is 100% clear to me. I am not saying its 100% right, but I believe it as well as his reasons for being vague.

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@curr3nt - You're new to Mafia so maybe that needed to more explaining *shrug* You have shown potential with proposing goodie strategy and analyze the roles, but you're not very good on reading hints. If you had read some older Mafias, you would have got why I expected that :rolleyes:

Usually in a Mafia, when 2 players are in a tie, the day-post shows player names (I always did that when hosting) e.g. Day 1 people starting voicing accusations...bla bla ... [Player 1] and [Player 2] were brought forward ... [Player 2] died ... [Player2 Role] is dead.

So usually day-post lets you know which players (not roles) were in the tie. For this particular Mafia, knowing X and Hirkala were tied actually outs X as Ike (since Hirk had 2 votes on the roster on him).

Hence, my assumption that voting for Hirk will out Ike's name in the day-post anyway (or if the daypost showed no tie, remaining candidates for Ike would be those with no vote on D1).

EDIT: nevermind, Glyc already explained it.

Edited by araver
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Sorry, if I am being passive in this discussion. It was like curr3nt was reading my mind. So, I didn't know what to say.

@Glyc, why did Araver choose to make a tie with Ike and risk lynching a goodie, when there is more chance to lynch Ike. His defense is not logical to me.

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Sorry, if I am being passive in this discussion. It was like curr3nt was reading my mind. So, I didn't know what to say.

@Glyc, why did Araver choose to make a tie with Ike and risk lynching a goodie, when there is more chance to lynch Ike. His defense is not logical to me.

Vine, bad wording; immediately makes me think the two of you have BTSC.

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eh i don't think vine meant anything like that, just that curr3nt was posting the same questions she had.

to answer your question it's because Hirk isn't a goodie. I'm not exposing any more tonight. You have my recommendations but I don't want any goodie's roles outted yet. If I die tonight though keep in mind what I've said.

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So we are back to knowing nothing?

Any comments on why I thought slick might be Ike? Not enough to want to kill him but enough to watch him?

Recap of reasoning: Morgan might have made his target target themself. Fairly safe since Texas isn't likely to target anyone N1. Then again he could out a goodie that way too.

Odds of both Hirkala and Slick hit by redirect AND block?

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