[Guest]

I'm reading a book called " The dumbest Generation" and he quoted this paradox in which I quoted below.

Basically, the younger generation is declining in academic performance ( or not keeping the steady pace set forth by the predecessors ). And this book is looking at it objectively and giving reasons as to why. ( data is subjective, reasons don't favor any one particular side of thought )

Why do you think the younger generation is failing the trends ?

My answer ?

I think its because we're becoming too soft. With this whole " Good job Johnny" on everything Johnny did never lets Johnny take in any constructive criticism .Since he is being modeled into this narcissistic lifestyle of always being right it'll be more difficult to take criticism on what he does wrong.

When I get something wrong, or if my mentors were hard on me for doing something wrong. It always encouraged me to work harder.

This is of course ONE reasons in comparableness to a colossal amount of others.

I'd like to hear your viewpoint.

This is the paradox of the Dumbest Generation. For the young American, life has never been so yielding, good so plentiful, schooling so accessible , diversion so easy and liberties so copious . The material gains are clear and each year the traits of wordiness and autonomy seem to trickle down into the every younger age groups. But it's a shallow advent. As the survey research shows knowledge skills haven't kept pace and the intellectual habits that compliment them are slipping.

Basically, the younger generation has a plethora of knowledge at their disposal, yet their scores are declining. Why ?

[EDM]

It's not that the generation is 'dumber', it's just that science and technology has really advanced a lot....and we have to learn all that!

It's exhausting to sit and study a 500 pg textbook now rather than a 250 pg textbook then......we have more to learn....it's not easy....

Competition between students is higher, standards are higher than before.....but we are the same carbon and water-based lifeform.....brain size about the same as before....unfair, don't you think?

At the same time, technology has brought media into a new light; more mobile phones, laptops, ipods, etc......and some get....er....distracted....

We may have a plethora of knowledge available, but honestly.....we learn a lot and neglect our health (less sleep, wrong food, etc.). No wonder we can't remember what we learn!

I'm looking at this from my point of view....and my friends.....this is what we realised.....

Edited December 26, 2010 by EDM

[Guest]

I'm reading a book called " The dumbest Generation" and he quoted this paradox in which I quoted below.

Basically, the younger generation is declining in academic performance ( or not keeping the steady pace set forth by the predecessors ). And this book is looking at it objectively and giving reasons as to why. ( data is subjective, reasons don't favor any one particular side of thought )

Why do you think the younger generation is failing the trends ?

My answer ?

I think its because we're becoming too soft. With this whole " Good job Johnny" on everything Johnny did never lets Johnny take in any constructive criticism .Since he is being modeled into this narcissistic lifestyle of always being right it'll be more difficult to take criticism on what he does wrong.

When I get something wrong, or if my mentors were hard on me for doing something wrong. It always encouraged me to work harder.

This is of course ONE reasons in comparableness to a colossal amount of others.

I'd like to hear your viewpoint.

Basically, the younger generation has a plethora of knowledge at their disposal, yet their scores are declining. Why ?

So you're saying the test are skewed ? That they're testing a broader range of knoweldge that your youth's are unable to keep up ?

If thats true why are other nations scores increasing ?

China seems to be advancing the same if not more in those areas you mentioned yet their scores are increasing.....

I think it's just the attitude thats growing in America.

The very thing that makes this country great is also destroying it.

We're able to accommodated everyone . Everyone can now own a roof over their head and get food without worry. Look at this,

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ent...ome-family-mak

There is no incentive for parents to work hard. This will trickle down to their children. This "slacker" mentality.

This is only one cause though. There are ample more that can explain the decline in test scores however this one is more than worthy of mention.

Look at other country's, there scores are increasing yet their living standards are horrendous. Their parents know what is needed to be done to survive and live a comfortable lifestyle.

To put it simply, which child do you think would perform better ?

America : 2 Parents, never really worked hard, but had the Government fund them the necessary money to survive.

Or

China, those 2 same parents, place in China , living there for 5 years and realizing what they need to do to survive. Then in the 6th year have a child ...

What do you think they're going to teach that child ?

[Guest]

the problem is very simple.

its not neccessarily that the tests are skewed, because they get generalised too.

it's that the way of thinking we do now, is still exacly the same as that we did in the "old generations".

schools still work on how old you are, rather than your learning capabilities.

they give lessions in sepperate building, engels at languages, physics at the lab, history at another building.

also the schoolsystem was invented for how things worked about 150-200 years ago, that just doesn't apply anymore.

here is an interresting video that i believe shares my opinion.

[gvg]

UN, I agree. I myself am in High School, and i must say that what this video describes is so true. I recently took an english quiz, a reading comprehension type of thing. It said that there was only one answer, whichever it happened to be, for each question. ridiculous. Especially after my teacher, who is thankfully not a "this is the answer, that's it" type of person, went through each one with us and started accepting other answers, or completely not counting questions that she deemed unfair. SS: Same result, if we argue for another answer well enough, my teacher (who sadly is not as open-minded as my english teacher, for better or for worse) would give us credit.

Why don't they do that in the first place? Obviously, for things like Math, there really is only one answer. but for English and Science, especially, they should set up the test like this:

Question

A,B,C,D

Explain your reasoning, or come up with a different answer and explain.

Something like that? After all, each person will look at a question and answer it differently when there are truly many different answers. Things may be intepreted differently, etc. After all, short answer question answer keys don't have set answers, but tell graders to accept good, quality answers.

Now, the priblem with the arts:

I will admit, i dislike music and art. Why? I'm bad at it. Simple as that. I enjoy the fruits of the labors of artists, but I hate being the one that creates it. i do not, however, think art should go the way of the dodo in the school curriculumns. That's ridicukous. What they shouldn't do, however, is force people to take Music/Arts classes.

All throughout middle school, and now in the first year of high school, I've been forced to take Music and Art. It's ruined my average everytime. I don't know why they can't inroduce Music, Art, Tech., etc. in the early years of middle school (6-7 grade), and then let kids choose from there. Those who want to join such things will do so anyway, and those who don't will be spared. Less hate for the arts.

Now, Ionno, your idea is also part of the problem. Kids need to know when they've done wrong, but also need to know when they've done right. You need to here compliments once in a while.

But don't bring gov. funding into the equation. I can come back easily with this:

Which child will work harder, the one who's seen his/her parents work their a**** off to survive and help them prosper, or the rich boy who knows he has daddy's money to fall back on?

[Quag]

I dont think dumb is the right choice, i think we are teaching our children to be apathetic at best.

about 15 years ago here where i live some really "smart" people decided it would be bad for childrens egos to have to repeat a grade. now fifteen years later the drop out rate is astronomical. the same "smart" peopel keep thinking well if we make the tests easier and get rid of some of the harder classes the drop out rate will go down. What they have completely failed to realize and what all the teachers already know is that if you fail a grade but move ahead you have even less chance of passing next year. multiply this over 15 years and some kids eventually realize what they do in school makes no difference. eventually they are so far behind they enter high school without being able to read at a fonctional level and just drop out to find a crappy job or go on welfare as they realize they can never do anything else. the system has utterly failed them. they were "taught" that applying themselves and effort makes no difference. Unfotunately when they get older and realize that this is a dead end way of thinking it is too late they cannot catch up as they are way too far behind.

They have finally admitted (partially) that this is a mistake and now you can fail every other year! still will have a bad effect on kids.

of course this only is a partial explanation and only affect where i live (Quebec) and there are many other factors but it is such a huge one here i thought it should be mentioned.

Also when i was in school i was in advanced math/science this were discontinued by the govt. they also got rid of the lower levels. well everyone had to be the same HEEELLLOOOOOO!!! despite the oft quoted and completely misunderstood phrase that all men are created equal (which aplies to the law only) we are not all exactly the same cookie cutter copies of each other. In the end i did my last year of high school math illegally and passed my final exams at the college we shared a campus with so i got lucky. after that govt. even close that loophole.

End result: more advanced students arent challenged. those who are behind arent getting extra help and everyone is basically encouraged by the system to not give a crap as it doesnt make any diffence.

[EDM]

Just for the record....I wasn't talking about America.....I don't know how it is for students there, but I'm talking about in general......

As far as moving ahead is concerned.....we don't have it here (gulf and India...). You mess up one year, you have to do the entire year all over again......no exceptions.....(makes the students work harder....)

hmm....it looks like the system in the US is almost completely different to what we have here.....

Edited December 28, 2010 by EDM

[Guest]

ofcourse i was talking about Holland, but the youtube link wasn't.

@GVG, there is no use in making kids choose earlier than they already have to, i still am not that sure what kind of job i want and i have to graduate in 4 months... so choosing earlier and earlier is no option i believe. however i find it rather amusing that they do introduce music and arts to everyone at your school, but don't do this for physics, which is (more/just as) important in our growing need for knowlegde.

i do however if anyone wonders have found a job i see a future in, which is airtrafic controller, it pays (REALLY) well and im overqualified

i would like the government to instead of making sure theyr asses are covered in the crisis and they don't take the blame, would try to solve this type of thing. here is an example:

we set up a system which was suposed to support our country when a crisis as such would occur, so what is the first thing they do? they ban the system the minut the crisis took form -.-'

i dont want to go offtopic that's why i will close with an ontopic argument:

stay in school, don't do drugs

007joost has left the building of awsome discussions.

(ps. any rights of no capital i's and no ' in words like dont or thats or havent ar eall prohabited and under license of my crappie skills in the english grammer, since i mix the american style with the english quite often.)

[Guest]

sorry double post real quick.

@ Ionno or Lonno, it depends on the system really, do you have any numbers on what kind of house they have, theyr health condition? more importantly, in China your house is worth nothing, in America it's probably at least 100.000-200.000 unless you rent.

in holland for example (i live there you see..) we have limits, the more money you make with your job, the more you have to pay on tax and the less help you recieve from the government. Obama in fact took our health system in consideration and applied a variation in America.

so you post have to have facts or some valid arguments, otherwise it isn't wise to say it, you would only bring confusion

[Guest]

In the old days a guy who knew how to calculate the size of a square was considered a genius, today just because a kid is not doing so well in Newtonian Highschool Physics that means we're becoming dumber?

Stop fooling yourselves, you're time is up and the future is ours, have you looked in the mirror lately? wait don't bother I'll bring the mirror for you:

THIS, Is who you are!

Muhahahahaha young generations rule!

[EDM]

In this generation you've got children as young as 4 becoming prodigys and geniuses......our generation actually does something to help change the world, unlike the previous generations who spoiled everything and left it for us to fix.....that's not fair!

So don't call us dumb without looking at our perspective; if you are so interested to show us how 'dumb' we are, prove it!!! XD

Edited January 3, 2011 by EDM

[Guest]

a little bit overreacted but you make a point azna

same for EDM

Edited January 3, 2011 by UNfire

[onetruth]

From what I was told by a kid from China (he was very articulate and knowledgeable, so hopefully this information is accurate), students are tested at a certain age. If they do well, they can move on and go to university and become doctors and lawyers, etc. If not, they have little hope of moving forward in life and will have to learn a trade to become their station in life. Also, those test results aren't included when averaging the national scores, resulting in a false average.

I do agree that we are too easy on our kids (at least in the US). We coddle them and worry about self-esteem rather than challenging them. They need to know when they make mistakes, even if it embarrasses them or makes them feel bad. It will be worse for them in the future if they continue making those same mistakes. Basics of parenting.

I think the problems stem from the parents and sometimes grandparents of the current generation. Kids who only speak English can hardly form grammatically correct sentences, but their parents speak the same way. In my opinion, morals play a huge role in issues like this. I've done some stupid things in life, but I've always had shame. This generation has no shame at all! They will party, skip school, etc., and they will be proud of themselves for it. And the parents act like victims and do nothing to properly guide their children. It's pathetic.

I know a dozen or so teachers fairly well, and their biggest complaint is the lack of parental involvement. They are left to raise the kids, with no reinforcement at home and no academic help.

That's not to say that there aren't tons of smart people. The "dumb" ones are just easier to find. Maybe they're louder.

[Quag]

onetruth i have to agree with you on that. All my teacher friends complain that whenever there is a problem with a child at school and they call in the parents, they always get the same reply. Oh No not my Johnny or janey, they would never do that! It must have been the other kid, or the teacher, or someone else who caused the problem.

again the kids aren't dumb they are learning just fine. Their parents are teaching them that it is always someone elses fault.

Ill say it again, I dont think the younger generations are dumber, they are just having most incentives to try harder removed from them. Anything that comes without effort will be given little value. If we give everything to our children without requiring any effort then naturally they will value nothing.

Now please dont get the impression that i think all kids are apathetic. I think we make them so in misguided efforts to "help" them. However a few, a shinning few, overcome all the obstacles we place in their way and learn the worth and reward of effort despite us.

[Guest]

I think that a lot of the comments here are on the right track. I think that the problem is that the emphasis in American schooling has been taken off learning and moved to succeeding. We look at "failure" as a bad thing and try to eradicate it from all walks of life. Any scientist worth his salt would tell you that failure is not a bad thing. Scientific experiments fail all the time and that tells us something about the system. It wasn't what we were expecting or hoping, but it still gives us information.

Failure in some capacity is inevitable. You can't win every time and you have to know what to do when you lose. Learn from your mistakes and all that.

I had some other things I wanted to add, but I've lost the thread of my thoughts. I'll add them later if they come back to me.

[Guest]

The major problem I see in this thread, you guys talk about "the new generation" as if it were a billion clone of the same child and we treat them like herds...

Note all dudes/dudettes are the same, I had a friend when I was a kid at first grade and we still are friends, but even from the first grade you could tell we were nothing alike, he was never the academic type in fact he is the problematic gangster type and it's been that way for years, but for his case at least his parents are like that also, but there are kids who are very disturbed and very problematic and the parents won't just admit it, like Quag said the phrase "Oh no not my kid he would never do that he's an angle" is one of the things that's tearing the schools apart here...

In the video UNfire posted on the first page there was something that caught my eye, the dude said that kids are taught in batches and separated by age group, is age really the primary factor in determining your intelligence level? of course not, but why do we still organize kids by age? it's because if we did parents who have their kid put in a "lesser" group would have an outrage and will not settle for their kid being in less than the top group, here in High School the students are categorized into groups f Scientific (top) Letriture (middle) and some other groups mostly for those with no hope of any academic achievement, you could just imagine the screams of the parents and even the students themselves when they find out they haven't been put into the top group despite any evidence you try to show them, no one would simply take it...

[Quag]

Anza, If you read my first post you would see, that at least when i was younger they did have different levels according to academic ability. the Govt. thought this was bad and got rid of it. They once again have an enriched program but i think it is screwy as well. you have to apply to get into it (not all schools have it) hen it is run as a separate school within the school, different start/stop times meal times etc. but once your in your in. if you don’t get in when you start high school you can never get in. Also it isn’t separated by course it is the whole program. so a genius at say math but who isn’t very good at the topics will be put in the "regular" program and thus be forced to take a math far to easy for them, often losing interest out of boredom.

And no i don’t think all kids are cookie cutter copies of each other. I think our politicians and the bureaucrats the place, believe we are and that is where many of the problems come from..