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Evidence of God's Design

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Posted · Report post

What's so bad about that anyway? I'm not sure I really understand what's wrong with it as a belief, besides the fact that it cannot be easily proven, like anything related to it.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

What's so bad about that anyway? I'm not sure I really understand what's wrong with it as a belief, besides the fact that it cannot be easily proven, like anything related to it.

I just wanted you to admit to yourself that your belief in a god-via-complexity is by nature illogical and fallacious and you only believe it because you want to. As long as you recognize that, I'm totally okay with it. I just didn't want you to delude yourself into believing there was scientific proof behind it.

To further clarify, the failure of the "complexity argument" (your original stated reason for believing in a higher power) does not prove the NON-existence of a god, it merely shows that the argument DOESNT prove the existence of the god at all; does this by showing that it's simpler in all cases to apply the template of the god origin to the actual universe instead. (again see my posts a few posts up about the fallacy)

Edited by unreality
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Posted · Report post

I dont understand the point about the bacteria and the robot. but unreality's last post pretty much sums it up. compelxity or lack thereof has nothing to do with proving the existence of god.

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...So it seems like agnosticism is the only logical conclusion. I guess I can agree with it; there isn't any evidence either way, just a person's beliefs and the reason why they believe as they do. So I guess I'm agnostic.

New discoveries each day =)

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...Of course I think that's what agnosticism is. Please enlighten me.

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...So it seems like agnosticism is the only logical conclusion. I guess I can agree with it; there isn't any evidence either way, just a person's beliefs and the reason why they believe as they do. So I guess I'm agnostic.

New discoveries each day =)

I see why you think that right now, but really once you start looking into it more, there's overwhelming evidence against Gawd. I really recommend reading that book I mentioned a little further up. :)

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Posted · Report post

...But nothing that completely disproves it. I will read it though, if I get the chance.

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Nothing that completely disproves this, either: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm

As science advances, the gaps for gods to hide behind become considerably smaller, and religions keep adapting/changing the interpretation of their texts to keep up. :rolleyes: It's only a matter of time, but until we get to the point where we can explain everything, that link is some food for thought.

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Posted · Report post

...and once we get there, I will surrender willfully.

As for the link, well, I see what they're saying. Really, though, it cannot be fully disproved, just as it cannot be fully proved. I guess we have to wait until we die, and by then, it's to late to tell anyone.

ONCE AGAIN, I'm very open to scientific discoveries. Once I started to learn about the universe, about physics (to a point; it's confusing as hell) and, most importantly, about evolution, I stopped allowing myself to be spoon fed information from my church. I noticed contradictions. For example, they say that God knows everything that will happen, thus pointing to only one future. However, they constantly push free will into our faces. If God knows what will happen, how can it be free will? Things like these began the questioning. I saw history shows on religious based horrors, like the inquisitions or crusades. And I'm thankful that I was mentally strong enough to do so. My beliefs are based on my transition, and my belief that science and religion CAN come together in a beautiful way. You may think that it's because of my unwillingness to fully let go (not what I think, I basically changed religions over the span of a few months).

That's my conclusion; take from it what you will.

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Posted · Report post

:)
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Posted (edited) · Report post

Glad you approve :thumbsup:

(edit: typo)

Edited by gvg
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:thumbsup:
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Posted · Report post

:thumbsup:
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Posted (edited) · Report post

:D:thumbsup:;) Edited by Izzy
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Posted · Report post

:huh::duh::lol::thumbsup:^_^B)):D

OK, I don't think we should continue this. I've gotten into these types of battles, and they can go on for a while. :D:P I had one with someone that lasted for, oh, MONTHS.

So yeah. =)

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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yeah. Good idea.

:thumbsup:

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Posted · Report post

:thumbsup::lol:
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:huh:
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Posted (edited) · Report post

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ^_^

This is getting slightly ridiculous...

Edited by gvg
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Posted · Report post

well, after reading the first twenty pages or so, you have probably completely destroyed any faith in God I have. Thanks. but I still have a good reason for believing in God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

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Posted · Report post

I don't need all this irrational 'logic' to tell me about God...God exists...the end. :P:D

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Posted · Report post

well, after reading the first twenty pages or so, you have probably completely destroyed any faith in God I have. Thanks. but I still have a good reason for believing in God.

http://en.wikipedia..../Pascal's_Wager

Problem with pascals wager is what if you get the wrong god? ie catholic vs jewish vs muslikm (I know all the same god yet all say the others are going to hell) or what if hinduism or buddhism is the right religion? You could actually piss god (s) off more by believing in the wrong religion.

It also all depends on god only caring about whether you believe in him or not. It ignores the possibility (in my opinion certainty) that if god exsts he cares more about whether you were a good person than whether you believe in him.

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Yep. That's what I was going to say. All you're doing is telling any god (we're assuming of the all-knowing Abrahamic variety, because 1. any deistic god certainly wouldn't provide a heaven-like environment (at least it hasn't in any description of a deistic being that I've seen) and 2. because it's more widespread) that you're only believing in him for a reward. As Quag says, you're assuming he/she/it cares more about people believing in him.

Pascal's wager, to me, is for people who are too afraid of repercussions to embrace the fact that there is currently no evidence, logically, philosophically, or scientifically, that a god-like being or beings exist. If I go to hell or what not for using my reason to realize this, then so be it. Because any being (again IMO) that prefers for people to ignore this inconvenient truth, going against the very logic and reason that was supposedly given to us by god, and instead to rely on faith, with threat of eternal damnation if we don't, is really not something I'd want to worship anyway.

...I think that made sense. Hopefully =)

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I am tired and don't feel like reading all 43 pages of posts, so I'll just post my opinion on the matter:

God allowed the existence of miracles in the Biblical Times to prove that he existed, right? In fact, one time, a disciple even said that if it is hard to believe in God WITH miracles, then, people in the later times are going to have a whole ton of troubles believing in God. So, basically, it is a big guessing game of the matter to some nonbelievers. But, many people would want someone to believe in and save them after they die, so, most people "seem" to believe in a Holy Spirit. I say seem because there are tons of people who play church and go to it because they want to be seen as a good person and get a good reputation. Anyways, for now, no living person knows if there really is a God, so the debate seems to be pretty much nonexistent because the believe can't have any proof except for faith. So, I say that the arguement is pretty much pointless. However I am a Christian myself, so yes, I do believe in God.

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Posted · Report post

Are you guys TRYING to convert me to atheist? :dry:

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