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peace*out

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Posts posted by peace*out

  1. "The commission is especially critical of the US, saying it must abandon anti-crime approaches to drug policy and adopt strategies rooted in healthcare and human rights."

    maybe, just maybe, the us should listen to logic when its hitting them in the face. just maybe.

    "The office of White House drug tsar Gil Kerlikowske rejected the panel's recommendations. "Drug addiction is a disease that can be successfully prevented and treated," said a spokesman for the Office of National Drug Control Policy."

  2. It seems my playing devil's advocate didn't really get us anywhere, but in reality this logic has been in the back of my mind the whole time:

    In the end, the less humans, probably the better I guess. So fine :P I concede. I don't like abortions and I still think there's a line to be drawn SOMEWHERE in the process, but I will give a little ground and agree that most women should not be penalized by the state for making this choice...

    ...of course. you had the answer the entire time. and you were hinting at it. and...sneaky sneaky unreality :P

    I do have to admit, i dont like abortions either, but in terms of rights, i do feel that someone shouldnt have a say over someone else's body. :P

    that was the best argument that ive had in a long time! :D

  3. No, no. Of course the earlier you have your abortion the better in my opinion. I'm just saying that if for some odd reason a mother didn't get around abortion her baby until the baby was week old I would probably be okay with that. I mean, I probably wouldn't like it any may not agree with the mother's choice, but I wouldn't declare the mother a murderer. So while I might not like the mother's decision to kill her one week old baby I wouldn't criminalize her for it either.

    ahhhhh...

    i will say that i do disagree with that late of a deadline (i mean, if the babys a baby, then you should give it up for adoption). just adding my opinion. :P

  4. Chicken eggs are unfertilized. And it's a non-human animal, which we eat aplenty of (even post-birth animals too, ie, cows etc) but that's not what this debate is about, regardless of whether it is ethically correct to kill other animals. We're talking about killing other humans here.

    its more of the point that when people eat an egg, they dont think of it becoming a baby chick. they think of it as an egg. its the way you look at it. when you say fetus, you say "potential human." but when you say egg, you think either "egg" or "breakfast" - not "potential chicken."

    Skin cells can't be made into humans as far as I know. And if they can, it's a procedure that is different from the natural progression of things (whereas the fetus => birth => baby is the natural progression of things and that will indeed happen (with a high success rate) if left alone (i.e. not aborted).

    To be clear, in the event where the success rate is predicted to be low and the mother's life at risk, I am in favor of abortions, just like any other triage at a hospital. But most childbirths go 'according to plan' and produce living human beings...

    ...unless interrupted. Then the human being will not exist.

    still - its a piece of life. think about it. person x is pregnant. its not like person x is carrying kids inside of kids inside of kids and so on. person x is carrying potential kids, and as those kids grow, THEY start growing potential kids. life does come from a single cell that forms and grows. and while tounge cells dont do that, were not trying to compare apples and oranges. THEY'RE JUST CELLS. and unless they can function, its not life. im not saying cut a person in half and say "har-de-har-har, they're just cells," but if you have skin cells - they're just cells. together they form life. im not talking about the potential, im talking about right here, right now. *starts singing HSM3*

    That's not the point. What if a living adult is dependent on my nutrients for survival. Like somehow, a portion of everything I eat goes to them. Despite this, you would probably call it murder if I killed my "parasite".

    I think it's a sad world when we call potential humans "parasites" to justify aborting them for mostly selfish reasons...

    what do you mean by that? like you care for them like a grandparent in a nursing home? or is it that they literally absorb half of your food?

    parasite |ˈparəˌsīt|

    noun

    an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

    • derogatory a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

    Parasites exist in huge variety, including animals, plants, and microorganisms. They may live as ectoparasites on the surface of the host (e.g., arthropods such as ticks, mites, lice, fleas, and many insects infesting plants) or as endoparasites in the gut or tissues (e.g., many kinds of worm), and cause varying degrees of damage or disease to the host.

    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via Latin from Greek parasitos ‘(person) eating at another's table,’ from para- ‘alongside’ + sitos ‘food.’

    then yes, it is a parasite.

    And a day before it is able to function, it is not alive by your reasoning. Say in 8 hours it will have crossed the grey area and be "alive" by your reckoning and then you support criminilization of aborting it. But now (8 hours before this time), you are somehow pro-abortion??

    yes. that may sound crazy, but yes. thats like cooking a chick. before the egg hatches into a chick, will you boil it? yeah, sure! YUMMY! :D but after? you wouldnt just drop a chick into a pot of boiling hot water! or would you? cause if you would...we need to open up a thread about animal cruelty. :P

    I'm well aware of the sperm-egg analogy. But it's a matter of probability. At one point does it become quite likely that a new human is going to enter this world? At that point, it is too precious to kill. I could never kill it at least, though you seem to be bent by society into thinking it's okay to do this. So yes, a line must be drawn. But for me, that line is fairly early (once we are fairly positive that a new human will come to exist as a result of what's going on). And yes, past that point, I believe it is murder.

    i know you place less of value on animal life than human, but think about it in terms of animal life. again, the chicken and the egg. we're all mammals. so if you think an egg is going to be fertilized, is it bad to take it for your own good? (aka, dye it/eat it)

    what did the egg say to the pot off boiling water?

    sorry if it takes me a while to become hard - i just got laid last night.

    get it? get...yeah sorry. i thought i was kinda funny...

    Once again, other animals are not the subject here. Dust mites aren't people and aren't as precious to me as people are. But apparently you see dust mites and people as being on the same (rather low) pedestal... :dry:

    ...its a metaphor, or whatever you call it. analogy? its a parallel. its my version of saying, how is that other argument wrong?

    This obsession with the present!! What about the future??? What about one day before birth?? It still isn't conscious but it seems like murder now doesn't it? As I said above, I draw the line at the point when it becomes very likely a new human will come to exist. And I think that answers UtF's post too

    fine. lets say no present. the more and more people that earth takes on, the worse it will be. we're still recovering from an ice age, and global warming isnt that things are rising, its that they're rising at a larger rate. at some point, if we have the technology, well move onto other planets or SOMETHING. but do you wnat to increase the number of people living on the streets/the number of people in general? wars take out a good number of humans, but at some point...ever heard of Malthus's Law? (I have sources for once! :D )

    post-0-044370600 1307053812.jpg

    (if you cant read ^^)

    quantity vs. time, after a while there will be the stripes or "crisis."

    - - - - - = population

    –––––––– = resources

  5. ...and off to the side stood percy making out with penelope ravenclaw.

    I love how somewhat random the relationships are in the books. not the main character ones, but bill first fleur in book 4, and then they get married! :P

  6. wait - maybe i read it wrong, but you were saying that if the baby should be aborted, it should be after the baby's born? like "have a 30 day trial, and if you dont like it, kill it" sorta thing? o.O

  7. I don't care if she removes her tonsils, because they won't develop into a living human being :rolleyes:

    thats not the point. the point is why should you have anything to say about what another person does to their body, because a fetus is part of her body until it can survive as a separate "being." Its her body, not yours. thats the point.

    Aha, the old catch. I'll show you why this is an invalid argument (and by extension the rest of your argument falls into speculation) : say you have a set date (you seem to think it's 6 months but a lot of people have their own little opinions about "when" it's a person, lol), and at that point in the development, you consider the fetus to now be a human. You're no longer okay with aborting it at that point or later.

    hows it an invalid argument? there is a point in time where a fetus is able to function and is able to survive. at that point where it could leave the mother, its a functioning being. im sure, if the mother wanted an abortion, tests could be done to determine the stage the baby was at quite easily.

    So what about a day before? What about literally 10 seconds before this "line"? Is that perfectly fine to kill the fetus, despite that if you wait 10 seconds longer it'll now be murder by your standards? It's a paradox of infinitesimals. You cannot draw an absolute line. it's very fuzzy. There is no distinction, being a continual, gradual process, that, if not interrupted, will most likely (in most reasonably healthy countries) be born into a living person if left to develop as it naturally does.

    the "line" isnt dead set. its the stage the fetus would be in. no one knows when it would be able to fuction as a separate being. so yeah, i think its quite late and that people will get one before then, but until its a functioning being, its a parasite.

    oh - and look at the quote in my signature. unless you want to become catholic, you must draw some sort of line. :P

    Once again, my skin cells, tongue cells, etc, will not keep multiplying into a new person. A zygote may not seem like a person yet but it will be.

    thats like saying dont not pick at your skin because then the dust mites wont have any food. if the baby's aborted, does it make a difference to now? no.

    A sleeping person cannot suffer until later, if, say, you fill the room with a poisonous gas that kills them in their sleep peacefully. Would you do that to a sleeping person? I hope not...

    and yes octopuppy, a comatose person did have a personality, and will have a personality if they wake up. A fetus did not have a personality but they will develop one if they are born. The future is more important than the past.

    we dont do that to sleeping people, but we have bombed cities as part of a war, killing people who are just there. id say that was quite worse. So no, i wouldnt do that. but what about the point that i made. is the fetus going to affect anyone other than the parents? will it ever influence someone, or make an impact on someone's life? yes, theres the possibility of the future, but it wouldnt change the present.

  8. My friends look at me funny when I talk about mafia :( You are so lucky ;)

    yeah, other than as a game at home, ive never encountered people who play it. it was aweosme to watch, although i could barely understnad. I figured out Steven played "god" and i think angel was the mafia because they kept saying her name over and over. o.O :P

  9. I know this is random, but i would just like to say that i encountered the best thing in the dining hall just now. I walked it and saw some of my asian friends, so i sat with them. cathy looked up and said "we're playing mafia, and speaking in chinese. is that ok?" I said yes and watched as they proceded to play mafia. in chinese. It was awesome.

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