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Alright, I haven't read everything, but here's what I think: I think that there are many futures. The event that actually occurs is based on not only what you choose, but what others choose as well. (Interconnectedness. Gotta love it =)) Each event has a chance of being chosen, although not necessarily equally because of the interconnectedness. EX: You and another guy are in a promotional race. the boss has already decided that, if both of you work equally as hard, the other guy will win. So if you pic the path of doing your best (whatever that may be), and he does too, you're out of luck. But if you do your best, and he only does a 50% effort, well, you win. Many futures. On top of this, there is randomness. Where? I don't know. probably only on a quantum level. but it's there. So true free will is bogus, true destiny is bogus, comlete randomness is bogus. That's compatibalism, right?

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure she's in a better place, wherever that may be. Makes you realize how fragile all of this is. I hope you have a great thanksgiving. And if you don't celebrate Thanksgiving (I know some people on here are outside of the US), then have a great day.

cahoot (i think it's a word...)

That would be AMAZING. And very easy to get, too.

I'll take a crack at it:

I'm sorry I continued it. Last thing I'll say: I wasn't referring to the Judeo-Abrahmic God. He doesn't exist. My god simply made the most basic fundamental law of Physics, which started everything up, and then left it alone. And it isn't a person, it's more like a force. Whatevs. It may be emotional; I transitioned from Christian to agnostic. And its hard to give up old habits. i dunno. Hard for me, who spent most of my life woth god, to imagine a world without... SOMETHING. Anyway, Free Market: My belief is that the freer the market, the less free its users, because of monopolies, trusts, etc. etc. I think it needs to be regulated more buy the government, to give more power to small businesses. this includes: Outlawing slave labor in ANY country for US companies (can't do much about it period without a world wide change); making companies pay all of its workers, including those outside the US, at least minimum wage; and others I can't think of right now. After all, as some guy told me: The biggest business in the US is small business. Also, I think we should pursue the idea of being able to trade polution rights for stuff. For example, company A needs a little more polution room, since it has used its alloted amount. Country B needs money. Trade. Country B has money. Company A can add a little more polution. Now, it isn't perfect, because there's still polution involved, but it's a step in the right direction. Things like these will improve the free market. It's a great tool, if watched over carefully.

I always hear that from atheists, yet nobody ever gives me examples. Please enlighten; and I want evidence that, without a doubt, proves that there is NO chance (not even a slim one) that he exists.

They were proven, though, by science. God, however, can't be proven or disproven; so, you can't know. like multi-verses.

Market wise: Reform out the wazoo. Any ideas? I'll post more when I have time.

Well, yes, that would fix the problem, wouldn't it? =) I agree to that. Oh, and aren't we all 'domestic terrorists' for making this thread? And yes, you can't diprove it. =) Agnosticism for the win =) Dawh: There shouuld at least be a way to challenge the estimate with enough evidence. then, OK.

Dawh: The thing is, I understand it would be less expensive, but it would also be less accurate. I think, here, we need to use both. Complete direct counting would be illogical, because of those who can't be or don't want to be counted. Estimation isn't what the constitution had in mind, either. And with something like taxes and HoR on the line, it should be as accurate as possible.

I see. We actually haven't debated anything in my class... more like her telling life stories related to the material by 1%... And I don't want to start anything, but you can't disprove the 'sky fairy' either... Anyway.................................................................... (Ha, I had more dots I agree. I didn't realize that something like darfur even is voted on. It should be an automatic response. But since it's voted upon, we need checks and balances. Your idea sounds good. And while we may NEED to count illegals, how do you intend to do that? It'd be like saying "HEre I am! Deport me!" That's why estimation would work better.

Really? Could that be made into a vaccine?

Alright, so my idea sucks. Back to the drawing board. And if that's the case, well, good. that's how it should be. And good job. Sorry to say I don't have any amazing stories like that. Well, I did get lost in the woods for about 4 hours. that was a wonderful experience And I don't think a moment of silence is necessarily religious. It could just be for respect. And I have an agnostic teacher, but she doesn't say too much against religion. She just always brings up both sides of the religious spectrum. That is one of the great things about high school though: I can write all the essays I want bashing religion. Just did so for a Tom Sawyer thingy. Quite fun. She read it to the class too Although I think it was because it got an A. Still fun to see people's reactions though. =) Got a few looks that day. Ah well.

And what if, for my earlier idea, I take out the part where they go home early if they're done? They still have to get the minimum done, and get paid bonuses (So in essence, you get payed for what you do)but you must come in even if you met the quota? Or still no?

Duh But why can't we combine them? I don't see why this needs to be debated too. Count both, one directly (those that want to), and indirectly (estimation of homeless, illegal immigrants, etc.) Oh, and I dunno, does construction work that way? I'm pretty sure they don't give official time estimates, and get payed if their unofficial estimate is wrong, and they take forever. BTW, Izzy'll love this: In Texas, a bill is in the process of becoming law that allows teachers in public schools to display the Ten commandments in broad daylight inside the classroom. I don't think I need to ask about your thoughts

Can't we do both? or would that cause to much hoopla? Estimate those that aren't counted, count those who do. I'm sure we can get a rough estimate.

Izzy: Yeah... I see what you mean. I was just on the thinking that businesses would hire more people to always have workers, since the situation you said would be bad for them (thus creating jobs). I guess I shouldn't have tried to base a system on sports, huh? It worked well then. But maybe that's just it. What if we only used it on the jobs you said? Would that not prevent overpaying someone? (Like a CEO who pays himself lovely bonuses, or a athlete who makes more in one year than I would in a few hundred lifetimes. Now in your idea, how would you know that people weren't slacking? How would you watch each employess to make sure they were working during each hour, earning what they were being payed? What if, knowing they had a lovely hourly wage, they simply did near nothing? That's what I don't want. In a large company, it's impossible to make sure each person is doing what they're supposed to (unless you hire one person per person to do nothing but watch them), while in mine, since they must do a certain thing, rather than a certain number of hours, it's easier to do so. Also, I would think the incentive is large enough (then again, I am overestimating humanities belief in hard work...) However, I do see the problems (quite clearly actually, I'm surprised I didn't see them. Espacially the dependency part... that's the last thing I would vouch for). Any way to salvage my idea? Is it even worth using for the jobs listed by you? Or am I chasing the end of a rainbow? (Is that even a saying?????? ) Dwah: Yep, learned about that part at least in history classes. And I'm not saying that unions are bad; far from it. I'm just saying that lately, based on what I see in the news (even some liberal sites) and also from horrors stories from my family (My uncle said that he was fired baecause of a different union that he wasn't a part of. the workers were lazy, bacame very mob-like in how they made sure each did as little work as possible, and eventually, a new manager came in and cleaned house. There's also the story I heard that said unions destroyed the brick industry, because they said that each bricklayer could only lay a certain number of bricks, to the point where peoiple switched to more metal or wooden frames.) Oooh! That reminds me! What about in construction? I've seen my parents get mighty mad about certain projects that were finished w3eeks later than they were supposed to. What about implementing my idea there? Finish a project by this date that you gave me, or don't get payed? (Woops, just noticed some problems there too. "Um... how about 20 years from now?") Sigh. Thought it was good.

To try and restart this forum: Where will unions fit in our plans? The way I see it, it would be better to make people earn there money. What I mean is this: There is a minimum thing you must do in one week, say, cook 29 batches of fries, flip 45 burgers, and work 12 hours at the cashier (completeley random). If a worker matches each of these, they get the minimum they could earn that week, say, 50 dollars. The differnce is that there is no hourly wage. If you meet the wages, good job; there's your salary. If not, you either don't get payed or your salary is harmed dramatically. Now, if one worker passes the minimum, (say 50 batches of fries, 80 burgers, and 18 hours at the register) they get more, in a bonus like system. Ex: Each additional batch of fries, 5 $. Each additional burger: 1 $. Each extra hour at the register: 10 $. Now, if you match this early, and aren't motivated enough to go for bonuses, then you can take the rest of the week off. I'm serious. Now, the employer can force each of his workers to come three seperate days a week (that aren't on weekends), but everyhting else is voluntary: you go as you need. Didn't get enough done? Well, stay late on saturday and get the minimum then. Sick? Out for a family, religious, or medical reason? Well, your minimum is reduced compared to everyone elses, and you can still go for extra. Ex: Worker A had Pneumonia for 5 out of 7 days. He has to only do 10 batches of fries, 23 burgers, and 6 hours at the register. If he does 20 batches of fries, he gets the bonus. Etc. Etc. The unions, in this plan, work to help raise how much you make for the minimum work (but they cannot bargain for the amount of minimum work; here, free market (one of its good uses here) forces will set in: If an employer is offering more pay for less work, well, Mr. Scrooge just lost his workforce. Like my plan? Or no? Anybody have another idea for unions completeley seperate from mine? BTW, my neighbor told me my ideas were anti-union (He agreed with my ideas, though). Is that true? I'll admit that I'm not an expert on unions. Think about it: It'll reduce the number of times in certain fields (*cough* SPORTS AND ENTERTAIMENT *cough*) where you go: Man, that guy sucks, but i can't get out of his 30 mil $ contract without so many penalties. Edit: Misspelled neighbor

I will remember for next time =)

Ah... Theistic evolutionist. one of the first things i looked at when I decided to see what else there was. Definitely more rational than creationism, no? =) I remember one time in my religion class (HATED IT. It was awful) some of the students and my teacher (My first Fundamemtalist...) were laughing. About how ridiculous evolution was! About how stupid it was to think that God didn't directly create everything. Forgive me all for saying this, but I laughed my self... at their stupidiity I found out later that my teacher was also congratulating one of my fellow hypnotees... I'm sorry, classmates... because he argued with his science teacher FOR creationism. Reminds me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbZKUNvmsCU Don't remember where I first saw this, and it saddens me everytime. They teach creationism as a scientific concept in this school. And the teacher makes it sound like evolution is stupid. No seperation of Church and State huh? BTW: Love the guy at the end. What a dolt.

Peace: Thanks, I wasn't really sure. And that is pretty funny; is she really used to you doing it? My parents aren't entirely sure what this site is about, because all I told them is that it is riddles.

Very true Quag. VERY TRUE. There really is no limit to human stupidity. =) BTW, what exactly is a scientific Christian? I've heard the term mentioned, but I don't exactly know what it is. Is it like a theitic evolutionist?

Very true. And it is quite sad. After all, our medical advances can't save us from ourselves.

Ill take a shot: