[rookie1ja]

Sack - Back to the Logic Puzzles
A poor farmer went to the market to sell some peas and lentils. However, as he had only one sack and didn't want to mix peas and lentils, he poured in the peas first, tied the sack in the middle, and then filled the top portion of the sack with the lentils. At the market a rich innkeeper happened by with his own sack. He wanted to buy the peas, but he did not want the lentils.
Pouring the seed anywhere else but the sacks is considered soiling. Trading sacks is not allowed. The farmer can’t cut a hole in his sack.
How would you transfer the peas to the innkeeper’s sack, which he wants to keep, without soiling the produce?

Spoiler for Solution:

Sack - solution
Pour the lentils into the innkeeper’s sack, bind it and turn inside out. Pour in the peas. Then unbind the sack a pour the lentils back to your sack.

Spoiler for old wording:

A poor farmer went to a market to sell some peas and lentils, however as he had only one sack and didn't want to mix peas and lentils, he poured in the peas at first, bound the sack up and than poured in the lentils. At the market a rich innkeeper wanted to buy the peas, but he did not want the lentils.
How would you solve this problem if you had only the sack of the innkeeper, which he wants to keep (without devaluing the goods).

Edit: Pouring the goods anywhere else than in sacks (eg. on the ground, table etc.) is considered as devaluing. Trading sacks is not allowed.

[cglen07]

or the easier way would just to unbind the part of the sack the had the lentils and pour them into the innkeepers sack. then trade sacks, and your done. the first solution is too confusing and complicated i think. also the peas never leave the bag so its impossible for them to be devalued since they are still in original packaging.

[domino9]

Quote

then trade sacks

Logical answer, but some people are too attached to their sacks, who will surely appreciate the above solution...

[g-love]

I would bind the top of part of my sack (holding the lentils), then flip the sack over and cut open the bottom. Then I'd pour the peas into the innkeeper's sack.

[manisdogfish]

How would you unbind the innkeepers sack that holds the lentils and peas without reaching through the peas to unbind the lentils? Wouldn't reaching through the peas be devaluing them?

[otasyn]

Maybe I'm just not understanding the solution, but I don't think that everything is clear enough.

First of all, I agree with manisdogfish. Maybe we don't understand what devalue means in this sense.

Then, assuming that touching the lentils does not devalue, I have a problem with volume. The way I picture this, we get an hourglass shape. So, we fill the innkeepers bag halfway, then tie it up, and turn it inside out. However, since its bound halfway, the empty top half if really going to be fitting around the bottom half. So, if we do actually fill it up halfway, then the top half will now also be full. Thus, no more room for the peas.

I realize that I have assumed that the peas and lentils fill up the bag, half and half. However, the problem never specified. I think it should. The farmers bag could be filled up, but its the size of the innkeepers bag that matters (in relation to the amount brought it). If the lentils fill up one-third of the bag, then its turned inside out, the remaining two-thirds will now be half filled by the bound-up lentils. If the peas also amount to one-third of the innkeepers bag, then there is enough room in the inverted top half.

If I look at it more, even one-third is too much in some respects. It would have to one-bound-up-third. One-third of a non-bound-up bag is obviously more than one of three bound-up sections. This has to do with surface area of the actual sack.

Forgive me if I've ranted. I kind of hope someone shows me a something I didn't think of to make this solution a little more valid. I have found myself proven wrong several times when I do not agree with a solution. Its always before I go so far as to post about it, though. If anyone agrees with me, then I just think the problem should be re-phrased. I do appreciate the solution, but I believe the problem was an after-thought of the solution.

[sedgwick08]

Ok, here's the deal:

We start with an hourglass looking sack with peas on bottom and lentils on top. I think it is safe to assume there are only two sacks operating here and neither can be cut.

Next, we pour the top part (lentils) into the innkeeper's sack. Twist this once and then take the extra fabric and fold it around the lentils. This creates not an hourglass shape, but something else...maybe a bowl with a spherical object in it shape. Then the peas are poured in around the lentils (which are on the other side of the bag safely twisted up). Finally, you must reach in and undo the twist so that the lentils fall out the other end without ever touching the peas.

The only thing here is that I guess you have to reach into the peas in order to untwist the part with the lentils. Is touching peas for innkeepers and farmers tantamount to devaluing?

[rookie1ja]

Quote

Ok, here's the deal:

We start with an hourglass looking sack with peas on bottom and lentils on top. I think it is safe to assume there are only two sacks operating here and neither can be cut.

Next, we pour the top part (lentils) into the innkeeper's sack. Twist this once and then take the extra fabric and fold it around the lentils. This creates not an hourglass shape, but something else...maybe a bowl with a spherical object in it shape. Then the peas are poured in around the lentils (which are on the other side of the bag safely twisted up). Finally, you must reach in and undo the twist so that the lentils fall out the other end without ever touching the peas.

exactly - that's what I meant (and did not write in such details so that you could be the one)

Quote

How would you unbind the innkeepers sack that holds the lentils and peas without reaching through the peas to unbind the lentils? Wouldn't reaching through the peas be devaluing them?

I don't have to reach through the peas
- just do a knot where the rope is long enough to stand out of the peas. And in the end, simply pull the rope and untie the sack.
- or do a twist and untwist it from the bottom (from where the lentils are expected to fall out)

[vivaciousmel]

I see- clever, like a bowl within a bowl.

I was thinking grab another trader and pour the lentils in their sack, pour the rich man his beans and then either swap sacks with him or pour back into the farmers.

[Izzyfive]

Or just open the end of the sack that you need. or cut the sack in half.