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#1 bonanova

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:31 AM

<soapbox on>

I believe it's time someone
spoke out against the zero bashing that appears all too often in this and other forums. :o
So here goes ... ;)

Zero is too often just misunderstood. He is the
measure of a thing, not the absence of a thing. For example:
When the Yankees beat the Red Sox 4-0, it's not the case that the Red Sox have no score. They just have no class. They have a score; it's zero. Go Yankees.
If something is standing still, it's not the case that it has no speed; rather, its speed is zero.
In the number 5207, it's not the case that there is no indication of the number of tens in the number; rather that the number of tens is zero.

<pause to catch breath> :wacko:

Placeholder? ... Humbug!
Zero is more than that. So very much more.
Zero is the identity element for addition, just as unity is the identity element for multiplication.
He's an integer of good standing; he's a member of the Real Number club; and he occupies a central position in every coordinate system most of us will ever use.
So it took a few centuries to learn how to deal with him. That places him in the outstanding company of atoms, quanta, Game Boys, quarks and four dimensions.

So, whaddya say, fellas:

Let's embrace him. Include him in our games. Invite him to dinner once in a while [he doesn't eat much]. And not be embarrassed to be seen in public with him.

Maybe not ask him to be a denominator, tho; he's a little unsure of himself in that role.

<soapbox off>
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The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution.
- Bertrand Russell

#2 Lost in space

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 10:16 AM

GOOD SPEECH
Agree or not who can say it was not put well.....

My son had a point of view when five years old
For 365 days he said his sister was NOTHING because she was'nt one - fractions did not come into it - she was'nt one - period

I guess place holder is too non discript in comparrison to your delivery... perfect? or "no ball". Let the jury decide.
Concept of zero in sport is no score - there are no minusus other than points deducted for off game reasons, I don't know of any within the game (not saying I am any authority on this. My point is that you can't score less so zero is a srating point.

"Nobody goes to that restaurant" - so he must be huge now - BIG number I would say, pun comming .... wait for it... rounding up! - Really sorry about that.

Where did zero begin it's identity - as 0 it stated in India, it was poorly identified by Greeks, Roman numerals... not sure about other ancient civilisations such as Egyptians.. Mayans, I can't remember

though I would say he is the most sure in his roll due to the fact that it is a starting point in many cases - sport for instance
Absence repreentation can aplly - there were NO drugs in her bag - that gets logged, rather than it was empty, or they were there but she must have got rid of them.

All the above is my opinion only ! Don't let it upset you guys - just comment or do Nothing ... he he he
Slide one down the bar - Double or nothing??? -LOL
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#3 Duh Puck

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:51 PM

That nearly brought me to tears. I certainly bear the guilt of my share of injustices to the much maligned bloke. Still, while he's clearly a respectable citizen of the land of numerals, and deserves credit where it's due, I have to say you may have overstated his role just a tad. While he certainly can be the measure of a thing, that doesn't mean he isn't also just an absence at times.

To abuse your examples ...

When the Red Sox beat the Yankees 4-0, the Yankees did indeed have a score, adequately measured by our good friend. However, this same number merely indicated an absence of runs, which the Yanks are prone to do from time to time, despite their ridiculous salary cap.

If someone is standing still, the measure of their speed indicates only the sorry absence of movement.

And in the number 5207, old Mr. Zero is relegated entirely to the role of placeholder. If you write out the implied formula, he just up and disappears like a fart in the wind ...
5(thousands) + 2(hundreds) + 7(ones)

Yes, he deserves more kudos than some of us are apt to dish out, but his detractors are not without merit. Like that eccentric savant who is great at calculating pi but has all the social skills of a warthog, he has his talents, and he deserves our patience. He's just a little misunderstood.

Edited by Duh Puck, 27 February 2008 - 03:52 PM.

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#4 octopuppy

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:35 PM

Big up for zero! Yay!

I'd like to put a few more zeroes on the end of my bank account - they always come in handy there.

Let's also not forget that zero is the ORIGINAL number. All other numbers are defined with zero as a basis. He was there before the big bang, and he'll still be there after the big crunch.

Also zero has more factors than any other integer.

Umm. I just thought of an interesting maths question. But I'll stick it in a new topic...
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#5 unreality

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:54 PM

<soapbox on>

I believe it's time someone spoke out against the zero bashing that appears all too often in this and other forums. :o
So here goes ... ;)

Zero is too often just misunderstood. He is the measure of a thing, not the absence of a thing. For example:
When the Yankees beat the Red Sox 4-0, it's not the case that the Red Sox have no score. They just have no class. They have a score; it's zero. Go Yankees.
If something is standing still, it's not the case that it has no speed; rather, its speed is zero.
In the number 5207, it's not the case that there is no indication of the number of tens in the number; rather that the number of tens is zero.

<pause to catch breath> :wacko:

Placeholder? ... Humbug!
Zero is more than that. So very much more.
Zero is the identity element for addition, as unity is the identity element for multiplication.
He's an integer of good standing; he's a member of the Real Number club; and he occupies a central position in every coordinate system most of us will ever use.
So it took a few centuries to learn how to deal with him. That places him in the elegant company of atoms, quanta, Game Boys, quarks and four dimensions.

So, whaddya say, fellas:

Let's embrace him. Include him in our games. Invite him to dinner once in a while [he doesn't eat much]. And not be embarrassed to be seen in public with him.

Maybe not ask him to be a denominator, tho; he's a little unsure of himself in that role.

<soapbox off>


huzzah for 0!!! It's always been one of my most favorite numbers, it's an enigma. It's awesomeness :P
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#6 Lost in space

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 04:25 PM

I'd like to put a few more zeroes on the end of my bank account - they always come in handy there.


Wont do much good @ the front end

Let's also not forget that zero is the ORIGINAL number. All other numbers are defined with zero as a basis. He was there before the big bang, and he'll still be there after the big crunch....


O or Zero is not that old!

other info
Thought 0 came into being in India 525 ad, / Dionysius Exiguus first used 0.. but "zero" originated from cipher which came from arabic siphr which came from an indian name and does not predate 0.
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