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17 replies to this topic

#11 roolstar

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 02:16 PM

One more thing...

The answer I posted under the spoiler just now works since the people in this land can only say YES or NO otherwise there's no point to this riddle since a KNAVE can answer "I don't care" to any question asked of him...
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#12 bonanova

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 03:41 PM

I think the Knave is able to answer the question.
Here are two comments.
Spoiler for first, it's not a Yes/No question. It's essay.
Spoiler for so let's make it into a proper Yes/ No question.

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The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution.
- Bertrand Russell

#13 roolstar

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 01:47 PM

I think the Knave is able to answer the question.
Here are two comments.

Spoiler for first, it's not a Yes/No question. It's essay.
Spoiler for so let's make it into a proper Yes/ No question.


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#14 roolstar

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 01:58 PM

You have a point there Bonanova, and the way I posted the question I have to agree...

Still

Spoiler for I think I can still squeez a YES or NO aswer out of this one...

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#15 bonanova

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:32 PM

Spoiler for Reluctant to call it yes/no

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The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution.
- Bertrand Russell

#16 Jkyle1980

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:29 AM

You have a point there Bonanova, and the way I posted the question I have to agree...

Still

Spoiler for I think I can still squeez a YES or NO aswer out of this one...


In my opinion, the knave is not answering the question. He is responding to it, but not answering it. I think it has generally been agreed upon with this type of riddle that the question will be answered to the best of the persons ability. Otherwise, the knight and knave could both answer, "I am a knight" to each and every question asked of them. There is a line in which a riddle or joke gets broken down too much. I've seen this line get passed many times, and while it is interesting conversation, I hope that people will not use the logic in this conversation to "answer" other riddles.
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#17 Jkyle1980

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:37 AM

In addition...

You have to look at the meaning of a yes or no question. It is a question that can be answered with either an affirmation or a negation. So while "Are you a knight?" is a yes or no question, "What does Y-E-S spell?" is not. By the rules of the original question, you could not ask him "What COULD a commoner say if I were to ask him if 1+1=2?".

Going with this and possibly creating a tangent, are there any such yes-or-no questions that do not begin with (or reply upon) a form of the verb "to be".

"Is that the path of death?"
"Are you the knight?"
"Will you tell the truth?"

I realize that there are different ways of phrasing questions to try to get around this, but I think it clearly proves that "To be or not to be?" really is the question.
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#18 roolstar

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:35 AM

In my opinion, the knave is not answering the question. He is responding to it, but not answering it. I think it has generally been agreed upon with this type of riddle that the question will be answered to the best of the persons ability. Otherwise, the knight and knave could both answer, "I am a knight" to each and every question asked of them. There is a line in which a riddle or joke gets broken down too much. I've seen this line get passed many times, and while it is interesting conversation, I hope that people will not use the logic in this conversation to "answer" other riddles.


Right!!

The last paragraph of my past spoiler: "And therefore, we have to review most of the answers to similar puzzles and add this mysterious parameter that will render it impossible to solve them."

I meant here that this last paragraph explains why we CANNOT use this logic, so I totally agree with your post.

And Bonanova, even if YES or NO are the possible answers to a question, this doesn't always make it a YES or NO question... And therefore my Solution doesn't work.

And with these conditions, I don't think we can find a non-paradoxical question that a Knave cannot answer...

Edited by roolstar, 01 February 2008 - 10:44 AM.

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