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#1 plasmid

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 01:57 AM

Some of you may have noticed the topic on this forum: "A useful religion?" Briefly, the OP observed how widespread religion is across virtually all civilizations, presumably indicating a deep fundamental drive for most people to have a religious experience. If so, then that need ought to be met by a religion that is as benign and perhaps even beneficial as possible. Would any of the current mainstream religions fit the bill, or could something even better be devised? To avoid the cop-out answer of "make everyone be atheist", the OP notes that doing so would be inviting something along the lines of militant jihadists or another Jonestown to take root and fill that religious void.

Well, during the course of our discussions, something quite astonishing happened. Divine intervention as a matter of fact. Our eyes were opened, and the religion of Phronism was outlined. Now we present this new religion for your scrutiny, and invite your insights into what might happen if such a beast were released to the world, and whether further tweaking might produce even more useful results.

For now, I will deliberately present just the doctrine without explaining why each of the facets of the religion was adopted, in an effort to avoid guiding the discussion into any one direction too much.

Spoiler for Summary for BrainDenners


Spoiler for The parables of the meeting at Samarkand


Spoiler for Phronism FAQ


Spoiler for A brief word about yearly councils


Spoiler for And the Phronist logo

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#2 seeksit

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 03:10 AM

This is worth a closer look.

The God of the Bible has been trying to suppress this religion for 2500 years, but has utterly failed.

Like the legenary Phoenix, Phronism is arising from the ashes. It cannot be destroyed because it draws strength from the considered criticism of non-believers as well as from the energy of its followers.
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#3 unreality

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 04:01 AM

The truth is that there is no truth, and yet, the mind and body urge forward into the dance of life; this innate wisdom to take the Prudent Path in Life is too strong to quell, it is an intricate web of human nature, tying us together into the infinite Essence...
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#4 octopuppy

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 08:55 AM

Phronism has changed my life. Authoritarian religion will fail, the truth will prevail. Now I feel I can truly come to terms with the spiritual nature of the cosmos, without having to blinker myself against scientific knowledge. Thank you for spreading this message of hope and love to the world!
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#5 plasmid

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 05:05 PM

Unusual to have a post about religion garner so little response on this forum.

Maybe one lesson is that it's very difficult to convey something like a religion in a nutshell succinct enough for a forum reader to read, and expect them to get very excited about the subtleties that went into making it and how it's intended to operate in practice. If one were to read the holy texts of the great religions without guidance and experiencing the culture and lifestyles that went along with them, I bet they'd take away a much different picture than what the actual practitioners walk away with. For that reason, I'll abandon my initial strategy of keeping silent on the thinking and intended practical implementation of Phronism and will answer any questions about it -- separating the religion from the culture and lifestyle and practices it's meant to operate under would be like telling a story with a detailed plot but no character development: intricate perhaps, but a little unsatisfying.

And I really do think that Phronism has been designed in such a way that would make it a genuinely useful religion (or at least by far the best one out there) were it to be adopted by actual practitioners. So, does anyone out there have some thoughts on how an idea like this might take root and grow in the real world?
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#6 octopuppy

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 07:46 PM

lol, the silence is deafening! Not sure if it signals indifference, bemusement, or awe. I even PM'd ADParker. I think you're right about the problem plasmid, you wouldn't test a piece of software by offering the source code for scrutiny.

For those idly wondering what the point of all this is, let me spell it out. We've set out to test the idea that a religion could be useful, by designing the most useful religion we can. It's a pretty tough assignment but we may have succeeded. Remember that in order to succeed our religion must be ALL of the following:
1) viable (able to win converts, in theory at least)
2) benign (must not cause wars, stand in the way of progress, impair rationality and so on)
3) useful (perform a positive function to make the world a better place)
Spoiler for More about 3rd goal

Now we are putting it to the test and subjecting ourselves to the scrutiny of Brainden. We want comments from EVERYBODY (religious or not, as long as its constructive). Of course you might need to ask questions about how Phronism works, so please do. We'd love people to get involved in questioning this because it's been such a fascinating challenge. So come on Brainden, where are you?
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#7 seeksit

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 09:06 AM

lol, the silence is deafening! Not sure if it signals indifference, bemusement, or awe. I even PM'd ADParker. I think you're right about the problem plasmid, you wouldn't test a piece of software by offering the source code for scrutiny.

There's a lesson to be learned from this response. Part of it, I think, is that religion is an intensely personal thing, perhaps most effectively promoted face to face and with evangelical zeal.

Mention of ADParker left me to wonder how Phronism would be received on RichardDawkins.net. (There, IMHO is a true personality-cult religion; but that's a discussion for another thread.) I'd bet the response there would be a little more lively.

An aside: wondering if a title beginning with the word "Phronism", which means nothing to the uninitiated, kept people from checking this thread. Perhaps something more provocative like "A new religion for Brain Denizens" might have at least garnered more "views".
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#8 plasmid

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 03:15 PM

Or an alternative explanation: A quick search for the last activity dates for some of the participants in the old religion threads showed
bran May 7
adparker May 30
kawnsentrait Jun 22
izzy yesterday
hugemonkey Jul 8
d3k3 Jul 16
andromeda Jul 16
Most people have a fairly good excuse for not responding: they haven't seen the thread. Except for Izzy, I don't know what's holding her back. Maybe whenever ADParker does show back up he'll jump in.

In the meantime, the mention of posting at another venue does seem appealing. This seems like the sort of thing that nonbelievers would enjoy thinking about and offering insight if they thought it might actually accomplish its goal. Any suggestions on a good place to post?
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#9 octopuppy

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 07:54 PM

Great minds think alike! I was also wondering if RichardDawkins.net might be the place to float this boat. I'd rather do religious discussion on a forum which attracts a broader range of viewpoints, but at least we'd get a response there, and the testing criticism we seek is most likely to come from atheist quarters.
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#10 Grayven

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 05:21 AM

Seeksit and Plasmid are close in their guesses of why this topic was a non starter, I think.

Let's say I'm your average BrainDenizen. I've got a few minutes between really fun summer break activities so I decide to pop in to BrainDen and see what's been going on. I see this topic title "Phronism takes on BrainDen" and think "Phronism? What the heck is that supposed to be?" The title doesn't tell me much, but being the good BD citizen that I am, I pop in to take a quick look.

I get about halfway through the first spoiler, then open a couple others and see that they're all just as long. Then I skim through the few replies and I'm not sure if those are serious or not. Either I abandon the topic altogether, or decide to come back to this one when I have a few hours to spend on it(like this fall sometime, I'm on summer break after all!).

This is a combination of poor timing, ambiguous title, and a lot to digest with summer fun tugging at you.

Maybe a new topic with a title that is more on target, coupled with a brief overview? Just the basics of how Phronism started, the Samarkand theory and some bullet points on the main ideas. We can let the rest be fleshed out by the Q&A. Just keep it simple for now, eh?

Oh! and make sure the symbol(not "logo", this is a religion, not an ad campaign ;) ) is right there on top to grab them!

Unless I'm wrong, of course.
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