Jump to content


Welcome to BrainDen.com - Brain Teasers Forum

Welcome to BrainDen.com - Brain Teasers Forum. Like most online communities you must register to post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process. To be a part of BrainDen Forums you may create a new account or sign in if you already have an account.
As a member you could start new topics, reply to others, subscribe to topics/forums to get automatic updates, get your own profile and make new friends.

Of course, you can also enjoy our collection of amazing optical illusions and cool math games.

If you like our site, you may support us by simply clicking Google "+1" or Facebook "Like" buttons at the top.
If you have a website, we would appreciate a little link to BrainDen.

Thanks and enjoy the Den :-)
Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Honestants and Swindlecants I.


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
39 replies to this topic

#31 Tweak1029

Tweak1029

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 11 October 2008 - 08:45 PM

I like the logical answer, but there's another way to answer it.

The answer was incomprehensible, so B wouldn't have understood it, and if he was telling the truth, he'd have said, "I don't know." But B couldn't understand him and said that A was a Swindlecant, so B must have been lying, making C a Honestant.
  • 0

#32 jp123

jp123

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 October 2008 - 09:03 AM

A was a Honestant

going on the logic that Swindlecants can ONLY lie, B's statement "A said he was a Swindlecant" MUST have been a lie. and therefore the opposite must be true. A is a Honestant.
  • 0

#33 sahil

sahil

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 01 November 2008 - 09:38 AM

Honestants and Swindlecants I. - Back to the Logic Problems
These are typical logic problems which can be solved by using classic logic operations.
There are two kinds of people on a mysterious island. There are so-called Honestants who speak always the truth, and the others are Swindlecants who always lie.
Three fellows (A, B and C) are having a quarrel at the market. A gringo goes by and asks the A fellow: "Are you an Honestant or a Swindlecant?" The answer is incomprehensible so the gringo asks B: "What did A say?" B answers: "A said that he is a Swindlecant." And to that says the fellow C: "Do not believe B, he is lying!" Who is B and C?


Spoiler for Solution

one is a swindlecant and other is honestant
  • 0

#34 realitarian

realitarian

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:26 PM

Another way to clarify the answer is to systematically explore all possible solution permutations (since we have only three participants, we can afford to explore all of them quickly). Note the heading for A - we are strictly going off of what A "said", not what A "is":

A says… B is… C is… Possible? Reason

h h h N B is lying, cannot be H
h h s N B is lying, cannot be H; C is telling the truth, should be H
h s h Y
h s s N B is telling the truth, should be H; C is telling the truth, should be H
s h h N A cannot say the truth that he is S; C is lying, cannot be H
s h s N A cannot say the truth that he is S
s s h N A cannot say the truth that he is S; B is telling the truth, should be H; C is lying, cannot be H
s s s N A cannot say the truth that he is S; B is telling the truth, should be H; C is telling the truth, should be H

Edited by realitarian, 16 December 2008 - 07:28 PM.

  • 0

#35 realitarian

realitarian

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:40 PM

*** My previous post had formatting all messed up and this site wouldn't let me edit in time, so re-posting ***

Another way to clarify the answer is to systematically explore all possible solution permutations using a truth table(since we have only three participants, we can afford to explore all of them quickly). Note the heading for A - we have to solve based on what A "said", not what A "is":

A says… ------B is…------C is…------Possible?------Reason

h------------------h-------------h-----------N--------------B is lying, cannot be H
h------------------h-------------s-----------N--------------B is lying, cannot be H; C is telling the truth, should be H
h------------------s-------------h-----------Y
h------------------s-------------s-----------N--------------B is telling the truth, should be H; C is telling the truth, should be H
s------------------h-------------h-----------N--------------A cannot say the truth that he is S; C is lying, cannot be H
s------------------h-------------s-----------N--------------A cannot say the truth that he is S
s------------------s-------------h-----------N--------------A cannot say the truth that he is S; B is telling the truth, should be H; C is lying, cannot be H
s------------------s-------------s-----------N--------------A cannot say the truth that he is S; B is telling the truth, should be H; C is telling the truth, should be H

Conclusion: A could be either, B is 's' and C is 'h'.

Edited by realitarian, 16 December 2008 - 07:40 PM.

  • 0

#36 Saskaya27

Saskaya27

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 13 January 2009 - 04:03 PM

If you are an honestant then you would called yourself an honestant. If you are an Swindlecants then you would call yourself and honestant. It is impossible for A to call himself an Swindlecant, therefore, B have to be a Swindlecant because he lied and C have to be a Honestant.
  • 0

#37 ADIK09

ADIK09

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:08 AM

LETS GO BACK TO A'S RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION.
A mix up his answer which result to incomprehensible.
Liars misdirect people to avoid the truth.
if A is Honestants he would just say that he is,
but he did not.
so therefore
A is a Swindlecants.

LET'S GO TO B'S RESPONSE.
the Stranger simply asked B what A is saying.
the stranger than not say if he is a swindlecant or honestant.

C's Response
Liar would not kill his own kind.
so to avoid the truth to be known
he announced that b is swindlecant

then my answer is A&C is a swindlecant
& B is an honestant

:P
  • 0

#38 Isheim

Isheim

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 26 October 2009 - 12:07 AM

A is another example of the liar-paradox. He is both an honestant and a swindlecant at the same time. In order to get a real answer, we need to change/ignore the meaning of the languagesymbols of the story. Thereby the logic-structure of the story (difficult to imagine would happen in reality :)) would be changed and the story wouldn't make any sense :)
  • 0

#39 arci

arci

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:20 PM

It doesn't mean that if B is lying then A is automatically the opposite...

ever wondered what A really said? what if A said "I didn't get your question..." or "can you repeat that for me"

B is entitled to make-up anything since he is a swindlecant. so it doesn't automatically mean that if B is a swindlecant, whatever he said was the opposite of what A said...

sorry for my english..
  • 0

#40 arci

arci

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:25 PM

The fact is that A would be a honestant because b said A said that A is a swindlecant and because B is a swindlecant that means B was lying which means A really said that it was a honestant so A is a honestant. simple really.



because b said A said that A is a swindlecant and because B is a swindlecant that means B was lying which means A really said that it was a honestant >> wrong.. it doesn't work that way... "A" could have said "i don't wanna talk to you" and "B" can still say "A said he's a swindlecant....
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users