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#31 octopuppy

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:22 PM

It seems unfair that I was made a Cristian without my consent. There should be a law about that :dry: Now I probably can't undo it!

So my question for Bran and anyone else: How can one reverse baptism? I don't want to change religion either :)

Are you serious?

I should ask a priest about this. Actually I have a friend studying theology. I'll ask him and I'll let you know what he said.

Are you seriously serious?
Either you believe all that catholic nonsense or you don't. If you don't, you were never baptised. You just had some fool put water on your head while saying a magic spell. I expect your head has had time to dry off by now, in which case it no longer affects you.
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#32 SomeGuy

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:22 PM

:P

It seems unfair that I was made a Cristian without my consent. There should be a law about that :dry: Now I probably can't undo it!

So my question for Bran and anyone else: How can one reverse baptism? I don't want to change religion either :)

I should ask a priest about this. Actually I have a friend studying theology. I'll ask him and I'll let you know what he said.
I have nothing against people that believe in God it's just... I wanna choose and decide on my own. I don't like people telling me what to do (my grandmother) and what I should believe in and how to behave (except on BD *waves to Martini and rookie*) :ph34r:



If you have no belief in Christianity or its sacraments, then why would you worry about how to "reverse" a baptism? The sacrament itself would only mean something to you if you held a belief in the religion. Other than that, some guy in a funny robe poured water on your head, said a bunch of stuff, and gave you a candle. As for whether or not people should be baptised when they're still young, you are probably right. That is the kind of decision that you should make on your own. However, I can't really see any problem with a parent taking their child to church. They are introducing them to something. My parents signed me up for swimming lessons, soccer, and baseball (as well as other things) without my consent as well. From a "freedom" standpoint, you should make whatever decisions you think are best for you, but I wouldn't be upset about being exposed to the religion (one could easily make an argument that a child should be exposed to many religions, and I can't say I'd disagree with that either).

Also, from a more religious standpoint, I think it would mean more to you if you made the decision, and took the steps to get baptised yourself.
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#33 Grayven

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:24 PM

:P

It seems unfair that I was made a Cristian without my consent. There should be a law about that :dry: Now I probably can't undo it!

So my question for Bran and anyone else: How can one reverse baptism? I don't want to change religion either :)

I should ask a priest about this. Actually I have a friend studying theology. I'll ask him and I'll let you know what he said.
I have nothing against people that believe in God it's just... I wanna choose and decide on my own. I don't like people telling me what to do (my grandmother) and what I should believe in and how to behave (except on BD *waves to Martini and rookie*) :ph34r:

The good news: You still have a choice.
The bad news: It sounds like your family/community may not be open minded enough to accept that decision.

ANECDOTE ALERT!!!

I have a good friend that is a devout Catholic. She was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, etc. Her religion is tremendously important to her identity. She is also a lesbian. The irony is that her sexual orientation, to her, is equally as undeniable as her faith. She could no more leave the church as love a man. (And I can assure you, she has not, nor never will, entertain heterosexuality as a viable option.)

The funny thing is, the church doesn't accept her. She is kind, honest, ethical, honorable, trustworthy, generous, helpful, tolerant, humble, pious, loyal... all exemplary qualities regardless of your beliefs. Yet she is somehow not allowed to be part of the church that claimed her at birth. We have openly corrupt, lecherous, sinful politicians who can use the church as an election platform, but truly good people like my friend are damned through no choice of their own making?

/ANECDOTE

My point is merely that anything that doesn't go along with the dogma is not easily accepted. Please don't turn this into a sexual orientation debate, as it will surely get the thread locked, and I won't be part of that.
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#34 SomeGuy

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:38 PM

That is... unfortunate. I suppose that is the only way to really describe that, Grayven. I have no real desire to defend the church community that made that decision, and personally am coming from more of a "good people are good people, and you believe what you believe" sort of viewpoint. However, I do think that the homosexuality thing is one that is bound to change. Racism changed, sexism changed, and I feel that it is only a matter of time until society can actually call itself "tolerant" with a straight face. However, even just using the discussions held here to judge (and the world is considerably worse), we are a long way from that. I hope that your friend can find some way to reconcile those two aspects of her life, though I would expect that it will require doing something along the lines of "keep the belief, ignore the politics of the church."

I do believe that that will change, eventually. However, for the moment there are far too many people that are locked in "change is bad, different is scary" mode, and I think that they will have to change before the church itself does.
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#35 octopuppy

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:38 PM

However, I can't really see any problem with a parent taking their child to church. They are introducing them to something. My parents signed me up for swimming lessons, soccer, and baseball (as well as other things) without my consent as well. From a "freedom" standpoint, you should make whatever decisions you think are best for you, but I wouldn't be upset about being exposed to the religion (one could easily make an argument that a child should be exposed to many religions, and I can't say I'd disagree with that either).

Swimming, soccer and baseball lessons don't generally involve indoctrination into an arbitrary and unfounded belief system by means of fear and authority. If I were a neo-nazi, would it be OK to take my kids to pro-fascist indoctrination "lessons" so that they can learn all about my beliefs and be free to choose later? Or would that be something we should perhaps discourage? How is taking the kids to church any different? Exposure to many religions would be an improvement, but let's face it, doesn't generally happen. Even in that case you are merely subjecting a child to a set of viewpoints that have one common thread: religious belief.
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#36 andromeda

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:00 PM

Are you serious?

Are you seriously serious?
Either you believe all that catholic nonsense or you don't. If you don't, you were never baptised. You just had some fool put water on your head while saying a magic spell. I expect your head has had time to dry off by now, in which case it no longer affects you.


But that ceremony was performed when I was in diapers so I can't say that I wasn't when I was :huh:

Well even if I don't believe in all that, water was still pored on my head and all my life I've been referring to my godmother, as godmother, in Hungarian it actually sounds nice ;) So I can't just stop calling her that... so basically I wouldn't be reversing baptism for me but for other people, friends and family that believe in that stuff :wacko: I know! Makes no sense.

Oh just ignore me :duh:
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#37 d3k3

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:02 PM

huh, Greek mythology. Marriage is between one man and a woman. No cheating, no premarital sex. (Zeus, Odysseus)

Enter Pandora

Nobody can force your church, or any other religious institution, to perform same-sex weddings. So, why the &#%@ do you care if it is allowed by law? Please explain how a (civil) marriage of two wo/men has the remotest effect on your vows before God. I mean, seriously, who gives a &@$#?
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#38 d3k3

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:09 PM

So my question for Bran and anyone else: How can one reverse baptism? I don't want to change religion either :)

Does not compute. You want to be "un-baptized" and still remain part of the church? O.o
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#39 palmerc7

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:12 PM

The good news: You still have a choice.
The bad news: It sounds like your family/community may not be open minded enough to accept that decision.

ANECDOTE ALERT!!!

I have a good friend that is a devout Catholic. She was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, etc. Her religion is tremendously important to her identity. She is also a lesbian. The irony is that her sexual orientation, to her, is equally as undeniable as her faith. She could no more leave the church as love a man. (And I can assure you, she has not, nor never will, entertain heterosexuality as a viable option.)

The funny thing is, the church doesn't accept her. She is kind, honest, ethical, honorable, trustworthy, generous, helpful, tolerant, humble, pious, loyal... all exemplary qualities regardless of your beliefs. Yet she is somehow not allowed to be part of the church that claimed her at birth. We have openly corrupt, lecherous, sinful politicians who can use the church as an election platform, but truly good people like my friend are damned through no choice of their own making?

/ANECDOTE

My point is merely that anything that doesn't go along with the dogma is not easily accepted. Please don't turn this into a sexual orientation debate, as it will surely get the thread locked, and I won't be part of that.


This is exactly why I do not believe in organized religion.
There should be outrage in the church about the casting aside of people who don't "completely" conform to the ideas of the religion.

Find me a religion where I agree with each and every ideal, I'll go everyday. It doesn't exist and the fact that christianity (catholicism and baptist, mainly) believes that someone goes who doesn't believe in everything they do, should be considered a leper and goes to hell, is sick. But, a man can murder 30 people, go to death row, atone and ask for forgiveness, he goes to heaven. And homosexuality is just one example of this.

I believe in God, I do not believe in Organized religion. I respect those that are devout, more power to you, but don't tell me I'm going to your hell.

d3k3 - exactly. If a church is against gay marriage, then cool, don't have them there. But the fact that the government has all but legalized it, or at least to the extent of benefits, with "common-law" marriages. They should be allowed to make it fully legal, but a church has a right to decline to participate.

edit: [/rant]

Edited by palmerc7, 29 April 2009 - 04:13 PM.

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#40 d3k3

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 05:03 PM

[...] I feel that it is only a matter of time until society can actually call itself "tolerant" with a straight face.

Pun intended? ;P
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