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#11 No1slight

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 12:21 AM

can you have two half-gifts? What kind of denominations do these gifts come in?


i think that all are pretty much in most denominations but some may be stronger than others due to different views of Christianity right?
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#12 Bran

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:23 AM

Maybe they haven't fully manifested themselves. In any case, if you think you have two, work on both. Now, a very controversial one: homosexuality.
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#13 Prince_Marth85

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:30 AM

This could quickly turn into an opening of pandora's box.
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#14 Bran

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:42 AM

huh, Greek mythology. Marriage is between one man and a woman. No cheating, no premarital sex. (Zeus, Odysseus)
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#15 Prince_Marth85

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:51 AM

huh, Greek mythology. Marriage is between one man and a woman. No cheating, no premarital sex. (Zeus, Odysseus)


Oh don't get me wrong...I'm with you on that...but I just think you're going to end up opening pandora's box here with a controversial topic like that.
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#16 Bran

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:18 AM

hmm, wise words. Fine, let's discuss a new topic. umm... how about justification of Chrtistianity? gimme some reasons (even though I'm a believer, just wanna hear them) :o
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#17 kawnsentrait

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:34 AM

why stop with homosexuality! The bible chimes in on many more topics than that and I dare say they can be far more interesting. I will, however, start with homosexuality:

Leveticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them

seems pretty straight forward, right?

Now that I got the ball rolling, lets look into the subjects of polygamy, incest and slavery!

Polygamy

Genesis 16:1-4
Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

1 kings 11
Not worth a direct quote, but worth a look for whoever dares. Talks about how Soloman, the wisest man in the bible, has 700 wives and 300 concubines. It is actually presented in a bit of the negative, God threatens him with taking away his kingdom for his wicked ways, but then it is revealed that the reason God is angry is because he built an alter to another God for his wives, therefore breaking his commandment. God fells merciful though, so he just takes away 1 tribe and gives it to Soloman's son.

This one is a personal favorite from the new testament, Mathew likening Jesus to a man with 10 virgin potential wives, only 5 of which are smart enough to marry him.
Matthew 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom

there are more, which can easly be found here

Incest

I am sure everybody has heard the story of Sodom and Gamorrah, but do you know the rest of the story?

Lot was a just and righteous man.

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 2 Peter 2:7-8
He was the only man that God saved from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

...the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. Genesis 19:15
He got drunk and impregnated his virgin daughters.

Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. Genesis 19:32-36

check out the source, here

Slavery

Here's a fun one that kills tow birds with one scripture, slavery and polygamy!
Exodus 21:7-10 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

How to beat your slaves!
Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

A New Testament goodie about how slaves should think of their masters the same way Christians are supposed to think of Jesus
Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.

I guess the point of this post was not to make Christians rethink their views (although I think that would be a good idea) it was more so to point out that taking the bible literally is a dangerous game to play and that Christians need to realize that they are not living in the same world the bible was written. Saying homosexuality is a sin or an abomination is just as ignorant as saying we should be beating our slaves and selling our daughters into polygamous relationships, assuming of course that they don't get us drunk and have sex with us first.
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#18 Bran

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:44 AM

err... I appreciate the enthusiasm, but lets stick to clean(er) topics. Remember,you can talk about any aspect of our religion, but be polite, and don't get yourself banned. -_-
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#19 kawnsentrait

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 05:06 AM

err... I appreciate the enthusiasm, but lets stick to clean(er) topics. Remember,you can talk about any aspect of our religion, but be polite, and don't get yourself banned. -_-


I am new to the site, so I am not sure what will get a person banned. I hope I would at least get a warning from a MOD but I guess I will find out.

I am sorry to go for the throat like that, but I was not the person bringing up homosexuality in the first place. I made the post that I did, as you will see by reading the conclusion, to point out that fundamentalism is the issue. People who use religion for bigotry, malice or power need to be stopped. As long as religion becomes and remains something used only for the greater good of people with human rights being the core philosophy around which all decisions are made I think it can be a great source of culture, heritage, comfort and guidance. Used or viewed the wrong way, religion is one of the worst things that has ever happened to this world.
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#20 Bran

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 05:14 AM

of course. It was the old Roman Catholic church that used its power in corrupt ways, which sparked the Reformation. True Christians sin, but it is against God's will to be unfair or to hate thy neighbor. I hope everything posted is for the Church's edification.
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