Jump to content


Welcome to BrainDen.com - Brain Teasers Forum

Welcome to BrainDen.com - Brain Teasers Forum. Like most online communities you must register to post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process. To be a part of BrainDen Forums you may create a new account or sign in if you already have an account.
As a member you could start new topics, reply to others, subscribe to topics/forums to get automatic updates, get your own profile and make new friends.

Of course, you can also enjoy our collection of amazing optical illusions and cool math games.

If you like our site, you may support us by simply clicking Google "+1" or Facebook "Like" buttons at the top.
If you have a website, we would appreciate a little link to BrainDen.

Thanks and enjoy the Den :-)
Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Honestants and swindlecants XI


  • Please log in to reply
79 replies to this topic

#21 Prof. Templeton

Prof. Templeton

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1664 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:29 PM

I have another question about the premise.
"Because of possible loop conflicts, you may not ask any question about how the God of the Randomcants would answer."

Does this mean:
(a) you may not ask anybody "How would R answer...? or
(b) you may not ask anybody "How would B answer", given that B might be R.

I would have to say both would not be allowed unless you know that "B" is not the Randomcant.
  • 0

#22 CaptainEd

CaptainEd

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1094 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:51 PM

Well, R's answers depend on what H and S would respond with. So if we are asking if God "B" is an Honestant and "B" was, in fact the Honestant:

H would reply "Yes"
S would reply "No"
R would reply "Yes" since only one of the reponses from the other two Gods was a "Yes".

If God "B" is not an Honestant then:

H would reply "No"
S would reply "Yes"
R would reply "Yes" since only one of the reponses from the other two Gods was a "Yes".

R's answers are only dependent on what H and S would answer if given the same question. So in your example above R would give you 2 seperate answer that depended on if "B" was the Honestant or if he wasn't. For this question R's replies happen to be the same in both cases. If you walked up to God "A" and asked "Is God B is an Honestant", if "A" was the Randomcant you would get the same answer wheather "B" was or wasn't. Have I made it more confusing? :huh:

H...S...R
Y...Y...N
Y...N...Y
N...Y...Y
N...N...N


Spoiler for to save real estate,

Edited by CaptainEd, 21 April 2009 - 07:54 PM.

  • 0

#23 kkehoe5

kkehoe5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:52 PM

Spoiler for Got it, with luck that is

  • 0

#24 psycho

psycho

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:29 PM

Spoiler for I think I have it.

  • 0

#25 Prof. Templeton

Prof. Templeton

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1664 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:40 PM

Spoiler for to save real estate,

I think I understand what your getting at. In your cases where "A" is the randomcant (RH and RS) H would answer "Yes" and "No" respectively, because in RH "B" is the Honestant and in RS "B" is not the Honestant. I think you have to look at what H and S would reply with if they were in R's position (figuratively), even if the question is about themselves. I hope that clears it up.
  • 0

#26 Prof. Templeton

Prof. Templeton

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1664 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:03 PM

Spoiler for I think I have it.

Both Honestant and Randomcant would answer "No" to the last question.
  • 0

#27 psycho

psycho

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:09 PM

Both Honestant and Randomcant would answer "No" to the last question.

Actually, if the Swindlecant was asked the question he would reply "yes," which means the Randomcant would also reply "yes," making this answer the same as his first two.

Edit: If a was a Randomcant, he would answer yes to both the first and second question. Then when asked the third, he would still answer yes, as he would place each the Honestant and the Swindlecant in his position and as their answers would differ, his would be yes. All answers the same.

If a was a Honestant, he would answer No to both the first two questions, and yes to the last. Thus he would be the Honestant.

Edited by psycho, 21 April 2009 - 09:14 PM.

  • 0

#28 CaptainEd

CaptainEd

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1094 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:10 PM

I'm with Plasmid--there are two answers, P and Q. There are only 4 distinguishable sequences of answers, no matter what the questions: PPP, PPQ, PQP, PQQ, and 6 cases to distinguish. If I weren't so awash with coin-weighing, I would think that we can't distinguish 6 cases with only 4 sequences of answers. Sure wish I could prove it (or brilliantly get the answer!)
  • 0

#29 Prof. Templeton

Prof. Templeton

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1664 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:24 PM

Actually, if the Swindlecant was asked the question he would reply "yes," which means the Randomcant would also reply "yes," making this answer the same as his first two.

Edit: If a was a Randomcant, he would answer yes to both the first and second question. Then when asked the third, he would still answer yes, as he would place each the Honestant and the Swindlecant in his position and as their answers would differ, his would be yes. All answers the same.

If a was a Honestant, he would answer No to both the first two questions, and yes to the last. Thus he would be the Honestant.

You're right. R would answer "Yes" to all three questions wheather the order was R-H-S or R-S-H.
  • 0

#30 psycho

psycho

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:57 PM

You're right. R would answer "Yes" to all three questions wheather the order was R-H-S or R-S-H.

I just realized it wouldn't mater anyway, as we would know who a was, but unless a is swindlecat, we wouldn't know what b or c were.

Nuts
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users