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# Honestants and swindlecants XI

79 replies to this topic

### #11 psycho

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:41 PM

Never mind

Edited by psycho, 21 April 2009 - 06:47 PM.

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### #12 Prof. Templeton

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:46 PM

Spoiler for possible solution?
Sorry for making it so long! It is probably overcomplicated.

You won't know what "Yes" and "No" are after 2 questions since you could have gotten a Y then a N or a N then a Y

So you can determine 1 of the Gods, but what about the other 2?
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### #13 CaptainEd

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:48 PM

I'm having a fundamental problem with the premise of R: Let's just look at one question--the gods are A, B, and C. Never mind that I don't know what the answers mean, I just want to know how they would answer in their native tongue.

Ask A if B is H.
If A is H, answer is No (because B is not H)
If A is S
If B is H, answer is No, because B is H
If B is R, answer is Yes, because B is not H
If A is R,
We don’t know what H would say, if B is H, because A couldn’t be H. Since I can't tell what A would say if B were H, I can't tell whether one and only one god would say Yes.

So, I don’t know what R would say.

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### #14 psycho

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:50 PM

You won't know what "Yes" and "No" are after 2 questions since you could have gotten a Y then a N or a N then a Y

So you can determine 1 of the Gods, but what about the other 2?

Yep. I realized that just after I posted it and I wasn't quick enough with my retraction.

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### #15 zzembower

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:51 PM

Spoiler for but

Edit: Sorry I had been typing for a while

Having said that

Spoiler for I think

Edited by zzembower, 21 April 2009 - 06:59 PM.

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### #16 plasmid

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:04 PM

Spoiler for

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### #17 Dio da Goat

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:10 PM

Spoiler for possible solution?
Sorry for making it so long! It is probably overcomplicated.

Your first two questions would go the way you describe, but it in no way gives you any information unless you were lucky enough to ask the Swindelcant god.

You'd have no way to differentiate between H and R, nor would you know which question means yes and which means no.
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### #18 CaptainEd

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:20 PM

I have another question about the premise.
"Because of possible loop conflicts, you may not ask any question about how the God of the Randomcants would answer."

Does this mean:
(b) you may not ask anybody "How would B answer", given that B might be R.
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### #19 Judix

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:22 PM

Your first two questions would go the way you describe, but it in no way gives you any information unless you were lucky enough to ask the Swindelcant god.

You'd have no way to differentiate between H and R, nor would you know which question means yes and which means no.

Yeah, it figures. I thought I was getting someplace, too. Must ponder more.
Spoiler for anyways

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### #20 Prof. Templeton

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:25 PM

I'm having a fundamental problem with the premise of R: Let's just look at one question--the gods are A, B, and C. Never mind that I don't know what the answers mean, I just want to know how they would answer in their native tongue.

Ask A if B is H.
If A is H, answer is No (because B is not H)
If A is S
If B is H, answer is No, because B is H
If B is R, answer is Yes, because B is not H
If A is R,
We don’t know what H would say, if B is H, because A couldn’t be H. Since I can't tell what A would say if B were H, I can't tell whether one and only one god would say Yes.

So, I don’t know what R would say.

Well, R's answers depend on what H and S would respond with. So if we are asking if God "B" is an Honestant and "B" was, in fact the Honestant:

R would reply "Yes" since only one of the reponses from the other two Gods was a "Yes".

If God "B" is not an Honestant then:

R would reply "Yes" since only one of the reponses from the other two Gods was a "Yes".

R's answers are only dependent on what H and S would answer if given the same question. So in your example above R would give you 2 seperate answer that depended on if "B" was the Honestant or if he wasn't. For this question R's replies happen to be the same in both cases. If you walked up to God "A" and asked "Is God B is an Honestant", if "A" was the Randomcant you would get the same answer wheather "B" was or wasn't. Have I made it more confusing?

H...S...R
Y...Y...N
Y...N...Y
N...Y...Y
N...N...N

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