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Honestants and Swindlecants III.


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45 replies to this topic

#41 dietpepsi

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 03:19 PM

the person that got condemned to death has to ask any of the two guars: "which door would the other guard say leads me to freedom?" because if the guard you are talking to lies than the other guard doesnt, since the guard you are talking to knows that the other guard doesnt lie, he also knows he would point to the rite door, so since he lies hes going point to the rong door. if you are talking to the guard that doesnt lie, than he is going to say the truth about wat the other guard would say which means hes going to the rong door (again). that means that he goes to the opposite door that the guard showed him.
its hard to explain, so i hope you understood my explination. . . :)
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#42 SKULLOK

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 05:22 AM

The indirect question makes sense and I agree with it.

The Tricky question logic looks flawed to me, unless I am missing something. the question asked is 'Hey you, does an honestant stand at the door to freedom' Whilst your conclusions are correct as to the answers you will get, nothing actually indicates whether you are talking to an honestant or a swindlecant, So the conclusion you draw is that a honestant is standing in front of the door to freedom, but you still don't know which of the 2 is the honestant.

Is it me?

I realize this is a long time after this post was made, but yes, it is you. Ok, look at it this way, there's been no thorough explanation of this as of yet, at least as far as Lehman's terms go, so I'll have a whack at it.

Case 1: The honestant IS standing at the door to freedom-

Ok, if you ask if an honestant stands at the door to freedom, the honestant, if he were standing at the door to freedom, would say yes, because he has to tell the truth. The swindlecant, if the honestant WERE standing at the door to freedom, would have to say NO, so as to mislead you to walk into HIS door, which in this case was NOT the door to freedom.

Case 2: The swindlecant is standing at the door to freedom-

Arite, if you asked the swindlecant if the honestant was standing at the door to freedom, and the honestant was NOT standing at the door to freedom, the false boolean response ( a lie as a "yes" or "no" answer) would have to be yes, as the honestant, again, is NOT standing in front of the door to freedom. However, if you asked the honestant, and the swindlecant was standing in front of the door to freedom, being honest, the honestant would have to tell you NO.

So, if the honestant only says yes when the door to freedom is the door that THEY are standing by, and the swindlecant only says yes when it is the door that THEY are standing by, and the opposite for no (meaning that it is always the OTHER door when they say no), the question works.
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#43 jay08701

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 01:02 AM

Actually, there is an unknown, simple, & elegant solution that my Talmudic older brother came up with. In fact, it is superior to the classic answer because it works even if both guards are liars.
Here it is (roll the drums):

Which door would you have told me to pick yesterday?

Then pick that door.
If he's a truth teller then its the correct door. If he's a liar then he will lie (today) about the incorrect door he would have told you yesterday, resulting in the correct door!
Great stuff.
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#44 ZomBPhilanges

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 01:52 AM

the person that got condemned to death has to ask any of the two guars: "which door would the other guard say leads me to freedom?" because if the guard you are talking to lies than the other guard doesnt, since the guard you are talking to knows that the other guard doesnt lie, he also knows he would point to the rite door, so since he lies hes going point to the rong door. if you are talking to the guard that doesnt lie, than he is going to say the truth about wat the other guard would say which means hes going to the rong door (again). that means that he goes to the opposite door that the guard showed him.
its hard to explain, so i hope you understood my explination. . . :)

i think yours makes perfect sense... the liar would lie and point to the wrong door because he knows the honestant would point to the right door, so you would choose the opposite door

and the honestant would point to the wrong door because he knows the liar would tell you the wrong door, and in that case also you would choose the opposite door. nice thinking :thumbsup:
P.S. it was hard for me to explain to myself even because the logic keeps flipping on itself

Edited by ZomBPhilanges, 16 May 2011 - 01:54 AM.

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#45 irlmaks

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:11 PM

Another possible solution might be asking

"Do atleast one of you ever lie"
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#46 arci

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:39 PM

Another possible solution might be asking

"Do atleast one of you ever lie"


you'll know which one lies and which one tells the truth.. but you'll never know which door leads to which path..
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