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Honestants and Swindlecants X.


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42 replies to this topic

#11 gretch321

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 11:12 PM

It is entirely valid for a rich swindlecant to make the statement, "I am a poor swindlecant" = "I am poor and I am a swindlecant." The sentence is evaluated in its entirety, as either true or false. The statement is in the form "A and B". Since A is not true, ie false, A and B together cannot be true, so "A and B" is false.
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#12 invinciblemode

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:37 AM

I would say

Honestant: "I am not a poor honestant"

Swindlecant:"I am a poor honestant"

Note: I didn't think about it before i wrote it so think for me...
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#13 strikefiend

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 03:04 PM

I think I just came across a problem with the current solution.

A poor swindlecant could say, "I am not a poor honestant," because we would break the sentence down to (part A) "I am not poor." and (part B. "I am not a honestant." Since he could be a poor swindlecant, he would be lying by saying he is not poor, so we would have Part A as False and Part B as True. False and True is always False so, I don't think this would work as a poor swindlecant and a rich honestant can both say it.

Let me know if I'm wrong, or missed something.
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#14 CucoNY

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 05:31 PM

Here is my educated guess:

Honestant: "I like you and I am a rich honestant"
- Everyone on the island likes the girl so she will know that he is telling the truth about this. Therefore he is also telling the truth about being an Honestant and being rich.

Swindlecant:"I do not like you and I am a poor honestant'
- Everyone on the island likes the girl so she will know that he is lying about this. Therefore he is also lying about being and Honestant and being poor.

This is my maiden posting by the way
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#15 wafflefryer

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 06:39 PM

There is on sentence that will work for both types of people.

"A swindlecan't would say I am poor"

If a swindlecant said it it would translate

"A swindlecan't would say I am poor"
to
"A Honestant would say I am rich"


If an Honestant said it it would simply mean that a Swindelcant was lying about the Honestant's wealth.
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#16 dVs

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 08:31 PM

"A swindlecan't would say I am poor"

this would only work for a rich honestant... only an honestant would *honestly* relay what a swindlecant would say about them.

because the statement is objectively true for anyone possessing wealth (...that a swindlecant would falsely report that they are poor), it is a truth - and therefore, a statement which a rich swindlecant could not utter.

If a swindlecant said it, it would *not* translate to a lie (as per his nature) unless the swindlecant *was* in fact poor, thus if he stated this he could not be successful at wooing the girl.

confused yet?
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#17 joelbernardo03

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:38 PM

solution to first question: "the opposite of me would say that i am poor, and he would also say that i am an honestant."

solution to the second scenario: "the opposite of me would say that i am poor, and he would also say that i am a swindlecant."


boy am i going to feel stupid if i missed something here.


and here's a simple answer. lol, it almost feels likes cheating. i feel like a genius. i signed up to this site for the sole reason of posting this...

the rich swindlecant would say, "i am a poor female honestant."

the rich honestant would say, "i am a rich male honestant."

lol. i've been looking through riddles for days and have been tempted to sign up. but i just had to gloat this time. =P
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#18 bonanova

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 06:02 PM

Let's identify the four types [rich poor], [honestant, swindlecant]
of creatures as RH PH RS and PS.

There are two statements that must be crafted:

[1] A statement that only an RS can make, proving the speaker is a rich swindlecant.
[2] A statement that only an RH can make, proving the speaker is a rich honestant.

[1] A statement that only an RS can make.

Such a statement must be false if spoken by either type of honestant, eliminating RH and PH.
It must be true if spoken by a poor swindlecant, eliminating PS
It must be false if spoken by a rich swindlecant, making it OK for RS.

That is, the statement must be true if and only if the speaker is a poor swindlecant.

The simplest such statement is: "I am a Poor Swindlecant."
Only an RS can say that in character.

[2] A statement that only an RH can make.

Such a statement must be true if spoken by either type of swindlecant, eliminating RS and PS.
It must be false if spoken by a poor honestant, eliminating PH.
It must be true if spoken by a rich honestant, making it OK for RH.

That is, the statement must be false if and only if the speaker is a poor honestant.

The simplest such statement is: "I am not a Poor Honestant."
Only an RH can say that in character.
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Vidi vici veni.


#19 twittbrod

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 09:04 PM

Poor honestant cannot say "I don't like you because I am poor" as he likes her - everybody on island does.
Same logic applies to his second solution.

Or replace "Like" with "want", as puzzle originaly says.




To the contrary, is being poor the reason he likes/dislikes her? Presumably, they like her because she's a hottie rather than because of their own financial status. Thus, saying "I don't like you because I am poor" is a lie, regardless of the speaker's financial status.

Same logic applies to the second "solution."
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#20 Ploper

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 01:50 AM

once again, for a sentance to be a lie, only one part needs to be a lie, so the rich swindlecant could say "I am a poor swindlecant" he is lying because he is rich. so therefore he can say it. So the girl would not be able to tell if any parts of a sentence are lies, or which parts are lies. depending on honestant or swindlecant.
I agree with the honestant answer.
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