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Biology


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76 replies to this topic

#11 dak1530

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 05:04 PM

you guys over complicate the puzzle. it is as simple as 11:59 like he said. u guys act just like the kids at the spelling bee when u get a simple question it seems too easy u have to screw it up with over complicated theories
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#12 Numenor

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 11:29 PM

? That means that the total size of all the resultant cells (no matter how many there were) would forever equal the size of the original cell! Babies aren't born microscopically small, you know.

Ok: when cells divide at first, they are half the size of the original cell. Then in the G1 stage of interphase, they start growing. So eventually they would double in size. But just before cell division, cells appear to be "bloated" anyways, so the new cells would be half the size of the original, but not necessarily half of an average cell.

But for the purposes of this puzzle, they would be equal in size after each division. And also, we have to assume that the saucer's space was used up at 12:00, otherwise we wouldn't have an answer. But under normal circumstances, we wouldn't know when it turned full, because division would stop as soon as the space was used up.
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#13 rgopinath

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 04:11 PM

11.59
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#14 mrbojangles

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 10:56 PM

wow, you guys need to chill out.
-'cell division' the only condition was that it was a primitive organism. nothing was said to indicate that it was even cells dividing so all your knowledge about cell division is useless.
-'equal parts', what the frick did you think it meant? equal as in equal rights? equal as in equal color? please
-'the pitre dish would've been full' depends on how big the pitre dish was (see how stupid questioning that assumption sounds, well that's how stupid you sound when you split hairs with this puzzle), and even if the divisions started a year ago, if they were infinitesimally small enough (and even if they weren't) the fact still remains that at 11:59 the dish was half full and therefore at 12:00 it was completely full

don't be a baby just because you didn't get it right
-and yes, i do mean to sound like a jerk because you need to get a life and stop being a baby when you can't figure something out based on assumptions a 3 year old would make
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#15 Numenor

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 01:12 AM

-'cell division' the only condition was that it was a primitive organism. nothing was said to indicate that it was even cells dividing so all your knowledge about cell division is useless.
-'equal parts', what the frick did you think it meant? equal as in equal rights? equal as in equal color? please
-'the pitre dish would've been full' depends on how big the pitre dish was (see how stupid questioning that assumption sounds, well that's how stupid you sound when you split hairs with this puzzle), and even if the divisions started a year ago, if they were infinitesimally small enough (and even if they weren't) the fact still remains that at 11:59 the dish was half full and therefore at 12:00 it was completely full

don't be a baby just because you didn't get it right
-and yes, i do mean to sound like a jerk because you need to get a life and stop being a baby when you can't figure something out based on assumptions a 3 year old would make

Ok, you should stop assuming that I couldn't figure it out. I did. I was clearing up several irregularities that other readers have pointed out.

[list]
[*]The word organism implies that it is made of cells, and cells divide by mitosis (a form of cell division), so yes, cell division applies. But since the question states that each generation of cells is the same size, then cell division doesn't matter. As I said, I was only clearing up the subject of cell division.[/*:m:e1c89]
[*]Yes, I agree with you on this point. It should be automatically assumed that the problem means that each generation is the same size. But in truth the problem didn't quite stipulate that the same size carried into all subsequent generations when it was first posted, so several other readers who were expecting something more in the problem thought it meant something other than what was intended.[/*:m:e1c89]
[*]Yes, that is true only if the dish only became full at exactly 12:00. Say for example that the dish was half-full at 9:59. Then it would be completely full at 10:00. There is no more room for division, so mitosis stops. The dish is still full at 12:00. It fills the conditions, however, this is overcomplicating the problem, and while I don't like assuming in problems like these, you just have to assume that it only turned full at 12:00, which gives you the answer of 11:59.[/*:m:e1c89][list]

~
~
Numenor
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#16 mrbojangles

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 10:21 PM

i'm not sure how many of your arguments i attacked but i wasn't trying to single anyone out. i agree with all of your rebuttals to my rebuttals. anonymity in online forums is a weakness for flaming for me i guess. i hope i didn't upset you too much, if at all. like i said, i knew i was being a jerk, hopefully that quelled the rage a bit. anywho
1. i agree, biology has never been a strong subject for me and i didn't bother looking up the technical definition of 'organism'
3. i guess i didn't understand that way of looking at it
sorry again
cheers
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#17 lukegaru

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 12:52 AM

11:59
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#18 Naruki

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:26 AM

Some facts for the realists (as opposed to the logical theorists):
- Cells get slightly bigger before they divide so the two new cells are big enough to sustain themselves (no infinitely small cell divisions)
- Cells must consume food in order to grow large enough to reproduce (split)
- It is sufficient to assume that the cells in this puzzle consume enough food and grow large enough to split within 1 minute

The most significant problem this causes with the solution:
There has to be enough food in the saucer to allow the cells to completely fill it after dividing, eating, repeat.

If we postulate that absolutely no waste material is discarded, then the total food requirements are a full saucer's worth.

Thus, the experiment started at 12. ;-)
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#19 ditters0616

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 10:33 PM

Ok, guys this is supposed to be a fun riddle. If, you don't like it this way then how about this? There is a jar with 2 flies in it, every minute the number of flies doubles. So, at 1 minute there are 4 flies, at 2 minutes there are 8 and so on. If the jar is completely full with 400 flies at noon, what time was the jar half full? Is that better? Or, are you bio nerds going to attack this riddle too?
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#20 kedar

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 10:47 AM

for that the first thing is we should know the size of the saucer.
we dont know how big it is???.
if i assume its area as 10cm^2
other person may assume something else.
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