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14 replies to this topic

#11 comperr

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 12:27 AM

Arguement also has a meaning in programming, in C (or C++ which I am most familiar with) an arguement is a name for something passed to a function


ha ha - true but irrelevent here
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#12 sajow4

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 11:57 PM

It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.
4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.
5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.
6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.



Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.
It includes most of the views expressed.



I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I am asking for YOUR opinion, what is your defintion, not going by the dictionary or any other site of information. I simply want to know what you think - not the dictionary or onelook.com, else I would have gone there to find my definition.

That's not true. Go to the dictionary of your choice and look up 'argument' and you will see that there is nothing precluding an argument from being friendly.



In my mind (This is my opinion), a polite disagreement would be where someone says, "I do not like lizards." And another says, "I do like lizards," but they just continue on with whatever they were doing. Is this not a disagreement? If it were an argument, they would pursue the subject more - But they did not, so does this not conclude that this was simply a disagreement, not an argument?

Debating or discussing differing points of view can certainly be, and often are, friendly discussions.


BTW, were both arguing our points, but I certainly consider it friendly.



No. They are arguments. It does not matter wether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument. A discussion would be where we are talking about what comic is our favorite, or what one does for a living. That would be a discussion, we are sharing what we think, but that is all. Here, we are sharing our definitions of a word, but we are also either trying to prove ourselves right or prove another person wrong. In my mind, this is the difference between a discussion and an argument. What does anyone else think?
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#13 Martini

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 12:41 AM

[quote="sajow4":16b38]
[quote="Martini":16b38]
It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.
4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.
5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.
6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.
[/quote]

[quote="bonanova":16b38]
Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.
It includes most of the views expressed.
[/quote]

I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I am asking for YOUR opinion, what is your defintion, not going by the dictionary or any other site of information. I simply want to know what you think - not the dictionary or onelook.com, else I would have gone there to find my definition. [/quote]
And that's exactly what bonanova and I did. If you look at our first responses to your request for opinions, we wrote the following:

[quote="bonanova":16b38]
To my mind an argument is making a case for...
[/quote]

[quote="Martini":16b38]
I think 'argument' and 'dispute' are pretty much synonymous, however, I think...
[/quote]

It's not until you disagreed with our opinions that we went on to prove we are correct. If you were looking for opinions on what we thought, and opinions obviously can't be wrong as facts can be, then I'm confused as to why you went on to explain how we are wrong.



[quote="sajow4":16b38]
In my mind (This is my opinion), a polite disagreement would be where someone says, "I do not like lizards." And another says, "I do like lizards," but they just continue on with whatever they were doing. Is this not a disagreement? If it were an argument, they would pursue the subject more - But they did not, so does this not conclude that this was simply a disagreement, not an argument?
[/quote]
I agree. They are not arguing and no one in this thread defined that type of interaction as an argument



[quote="Martini":16b38]
Debating or discussing differing points of view can certainly be, and often are, friendly discussions.
[/quote]
[quote="Martini":16b38]
BTW, were both arguing our points, but I certainly consider it friendly.
[/quote]
[quote="sajow4":16b38]
No. They are arguments. It does not matter wether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument.
[/quote]
Aren't you contradicting yourself? You said:
[quote]
I believe that an arguement is an impolite disagreement
[/quote]
[quote]
If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument
[/quote]



[quote="sajow4":16b38]
A discussion would be where we are talking about what comic is our favorite, or what one does for a living. That would be a discussion, we are sharing what we think, but that is all.
[/quote]
If you want to make up your own rules of English and demand that this is so because that's your opinion, that's fine. Now you can demand that an apple is a watermelon all you want and claim that that's your opinion because you have your own word definitions and that's all there is to it, but that won't get you very far in the real world. It's not "we are sharing what we think, but that is all" as I have already shown you with the second entry for argument according to dictionary.com:

[quote]
2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.
[/quote]


Here is the definition given for discussion. Notice it specifically mentions argument:
[quote]
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.
[/quote]



[quote="sajow4":16b38]
Here, we are sharing our definitions of a word, but we are also either trying to prove ourselves right or prove another person wrong. In my mind, this is the difference between a discussion and an argument. What does anyone else think?
[/quote]
A face to face argument is necessarily a discussion but a discussion is not necessarily an argument.
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#14 sajow4

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 07:46 AM

sajow4 wrote:

Martini wrote:

It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.
4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.
5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.
6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.


bonanova wrote:

Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.
It includes most of the views expressed.


I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I am asking for YOUR opinion, what is your defintion, not going by the dictionary or any other site of information. I simply want to know what you think - not the dictionary or onelook.com, else I would have gone there to find my definition.

And that's exactly what bonanova and I did. If you look at our first responses to your request for opinions, we wrote the following:



I know. You stated your opinions, and that was all that I wanted. I thank you for participating on this subject, but that is all I really want to know, your opinions.

sajow4 wrote:

No. They are arguments. It does not matter whether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? You said:
Quote:

I believe that an argument is an impolite disagreement

Quote:

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument



I said:

It does not matter whether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument.



What I meant was, this is an argument. Whether we use fancy language from the 1800s, being "polite", or if we use dirty language that I am grateful we do not use, being "impolite", does not matter. It is still an argument, whether polite or not.
If it were a polite disagreement than it would not be considered an argument. If it were a polite argument, it would still be an argument.

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument, if they simply were polite and continued on with whatever they were doing. If they started "arguing" than it would be an argument.



You are correct, I did contradict myself. I apologize for that, and for any other mistakes I may have made.

I may not appear for a while, as I am getting rather busy, and I bid you all farewell.
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#15 Martini

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 05:55 PM

I know. You stated your opinions, and that was all that I wanted. I thank you for participating on this subject, but that is all I really want to know, your opinions.


I explained to you how you brought the conversation beyond that, which is why bonanova and I got to the point of providing dictionary definitions. After I stated:

"I think 'argument' and 'dispute' are pretty much synonymous, however, I think..."

You went on to correct me (as if my opinion were wrong):

"If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument, if they simply were..."

It is not until that point, that I got to the point of proving to you that your criticism of my definition as being incorrect was incorrect on your part. If you ask people for opinions and then claim they are wrong, it's really not fair to complain that you were only asking for opinions after they prove they are right.


What I meant was, this is an argument. Whether we use...


I understand what you meant. My only point was that it contradicted your earlier statements.


I may not appear for a while, as I am getting rather busy, and I bid you all farewell.


I hope you reconsider. I'm getting the feeling the arguing that goes on here about the correct answer to riddles or off topic discussions is getting to you. Relax. Don't take it personally and try to embrace being shown that something you thought was correct isn't. I thoroughly appreciate being shown I'm wrong as I just learned something new.
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