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changing fate.


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21 replies to this topic

#11 Martini

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:08 PM

You shouldnt be going around saying that like its fact. Maybe thats what you believe, but dont try to say that like its a true fact or something.


What part is not fact?

Your decisions are based on your brain nature and past experiences, etc, we still don't know how the brain works, and if you go around thinking you dont have free will, life has no meaning.


Are you convinced that life does have meaning?

Life is based on free will.


Or the illusion of free will.

and even if everything is chemically fixed inside our brains, nobody can determine that, so you wouldnt know you wer going to die in 2 days anyway.


Well, the point is, for the intent and purpose of the riddle, we have to assume that there is such a thing as a being that can tell us our fate. Just as for some riddles we have to assume we can travel at light speed, that liars and truthtellers exist, etc.

there are more solutions than just one. Aaron Burr is just taking advantage of the wording... what's wrong with that?


He didn't take advantage of the wording. He broke the conditions of the wording. Not picking on Aarron, it's just important to mention on a board that's all about riddles that answers MUST adhere to the conditions brought forth in the riddle.

sorry Martini.

ignore my posts.

I was in a bad mood. lol.


Well, I would have ignored them if I had free will. :icon_eek:

You didn't delete them, so I didn't ignore them. No problem though, bro. A little friendly disagreement on deep subjects is not a bigee.
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#12 Ploper

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 11:19 PM

I think we got a little off the point.
This riddle was a question that we talked about at school.
When I brought up killing yourself the teacher changed the subject.

I don't really agree or disagree with aaron's idea.
The future will never come, but a certain date in the future will.
in other words tommorow will never come, yet January 1st 2008 will.
because the next day, the word tommorow will mean a different day.
The idea that the suicide would fail makes perfect sense as well.

but if destiny is real, there is no way to change it,
because you do not know what actions will cause you to die in two days. there is also no Dr. Brown or flying DeLorian to change the past with.
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#13 IrNinjaBob

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 01:28 PM

The future will never come, but a certain date in the future will.
in other words tommorow will never come, yet January 1st 2008 will.
because the next day, the word tommorow will mean a different day.



I don't really agree with the statement "tomorrow will never come."
Tomorrow would mean the day after today. I think we can all agree on that.
In that sense, tomorrow will come. It will come the next day. The day after today will come tomorrow.
What you could say is that it will never be tomorrow. It can't be tomorrow, because tomorrow will always be they day after today.
So tomorrow will come, but it can never be tomorrow.
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#14 Ploper

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 12:46 AM

Ok yea, you got me there
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#15 nash

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 12:10 AM

how comes that you know a priori that something is gonna happen, let alone in a certain day, when you then can act in a way which possibly falsifies the fore-knowledge; May be this fore-knowledge is possible in a case -say- of a serious cancer, or the like. But there is a plethora of every-day situations where the fore-knowledge of your exact destiny is problematic, for the fact that it promotes actions which lead to it;s falsification (suppose a medium who would predict that you 're gonna die in two days in a car accident and you know it. If you're a superstitious man, it's easy:you simply avoid to get in any vehicle this day
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#16 Ploper

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 12:39 AM

Yes, but a man could kidnap you and force you into a car.
You did everything you could to avoid it, but it happened anyway.

Yeah, I was wrong from the beginning,
regardless of my real beliefs, for the sake of a riddle if a fourtune is made and it is true. . . Well, then it is true..
No matter what you do, what is destined to happen will happen
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#17 nash

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 01:06 AM

Your example is good, but what i mean is that the notion of (exact) fore-knowledge is problematic, for -despite cases like the one you mentioned- it promotes -either theoretically or practically- action that can falsify it. And, as we know, in real world there are multiple possible ways or combinations of acts, in order to avoid something in a secure way
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#18 Taidaishar

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 05:55 PM

Your example is good, but what i mean is that the notion of (exact) fore-knowledge is problematic, for -despite cases like the one you mentioned- it promotes -either theoretically or practically- action that can falsify it. And, as we know, in real world there are multiple possible ways or combinations of acts, in order to avoid something in a secure way



The whole point of destiny/fate (if one believes in such a thing) is that no matter WHAT you do, you can't get away from it. If someone told me that my destiny was to NOT touch my face with my hands for 2 days, of course the first thing I'm going to try to do is touch my face. However, if it were REALLY, TRULY my destiny, something would happen right then and there that would make me unable to touch my face for two days... maybe two sprained shoulders making me unable to lift my arms. Maybe right at that moment, someone knocks me unconscious and ties my arms down for two days. The point is, if you believe in destiny/fate, then you can't say that foreknowledge is problematic because your foreknowledge wouldn't do anything for you... in fact, you finding out beforehand is possibly what destiny/fate is going to use to cause the aforementioned destiny to come true.... Just like in the OP.

If your actual destiny/fate were to die in 2 days, and you tried to kill yourself, it's very likely that you would fatally injure yourself and you would die 2 DAYS LATER in the hospital... so, it was actually YOUR KNOWLEDGE of your destiny/fate that caused your destiny/fate to happen.

It's all circular.

@ Martini
I can choose to eat this candy bar, or not. That's free will. If you think it's just conditioning, or that it's preconceived notions that cause me to choose one, then it's the EXACT same thing as free will. I might choose to eat it because I LIKE candy bars (that's a preconceived notion). I also could choose to NOT eat it if I didn't like candy bars (that too would be a preconceived notion).

If I decide to go to a baseball game, and you tell me that was my destiny, what happens if I decide NOT to go? Well then, THAT all of a sudden becomes my destiny... so it seems that while my destiny, according to those who believe in it, had been set all this time and that it was to NOT go to the game all along, It is the exact same as free will because I CHOSE not to go to the game and my destiny just KNEW what I was going to choose before I chose it. It all amounts to the same. We all do things based on knowledge, desires, emotions and instincts. You call it destiny/fate. I call it free will.
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#19 nash

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 08:05 PM

I am of those who in any case believe that if something is going to happen, it is certain that it will happen. What i actually mean -and perhaps thewre was a misinterpretation of my view- is that it will certainly happen, but it is problematic for us -human beings- to know a priori that it will happen (at a time t, in a place a, in a way z etc). Thus, the problem is not in the world out there, but in our knowledge about the world and the infinite states-of-affairs included in this world
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#20 Taidaishar

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 08:16 PM

I am of those who in any case believe that if something is going to happen, it is certain that it will happen. What i actually mean -and perhaps thewre was a misinterpretation of my view- is that it will certainly happen, but it is problematic for us -human beings- to know a priori that it will happen (at a time t, in a place a, in a way z etc). Thus, the problem is not in the world out there, but in our knowledge about the world and the infinite states-of-affairs included in this world


Yeah, I guess it was a misinterpretation because you said:

it promotes -either theoretically or practically- action that can falsify it.



But this isn't the case. Theoretically it could create an action that might falsify it, but practically there is no action that can falsify destiny/fate... if there was, then destiny/fate would no longer exist... if it exists in the first place...

I think I'm also misunderstanding what the "problem" is. What problem is there in our knowledge about the world etc. etc. if we find out what destiny awaits us?
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