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Lazy-bones Paradox


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179 replies to this topic

#61 knabo

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 01:13 AM

It's Impossible to prove or to debunk (like the existence of God)



I agree, sort of. I think of destiny as being just a way to think about time. If you believe in destiny, you believe that the future is fixed (just like the past.) So you can theorize about what might happen in the future, but "possibilities" are not real things, just reflections of ignorance about the future. In this model there is one unified universe where the past and future are just as certain and real as the present... only the limits of our consciousness make it seem otherwise.

So basically, one model holds that there is one actual future which already exists, and the other that there are many possible futures, one of which will come to exist as time passes. These two views aren't contradictory, they are just different angles on the same fact.

that's what always confused me. No matter what happens it can be written off as destiny and no one can prove it wrong short of going back in time and doing things a different way.



I think this impossibility itself is the proof of destiny. You can't just go back in time and change the course of history because there is only one past. Similarly, eventually the future will be the past, so there can be only one of them.

Which perspective you use doesn't influence the answer to the paradox either. The fatalistic man is wrong in both cases. He does have a say in his future; if he goes to the doctor he's more likely to get well. That's just common sense.
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#62 Johnny

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 12:38 PM

Cause and effect would hold true under either belief. Any action we take is an action whether it be reactionary or proactive. Either way unless death is instant, it ends up being a case of que sara sara.
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#63 chrisrippel

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 12:40 AM

>If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless to for example go to a doctor?

If the master plan truly "defines everything that is to happen",
then the details in the plan "which defines everything" tell whether going to the doctor is useless or useful.

If the plan says you are going to go to the doctor and the doctor cures you,
then I would say going to the doctor is not "useless".

If the plan gives other actions and outcomes
(e.g., it says you go to the doctor and die, or you take an aspirin, go to bed and live),
then I would say going to the doctor is probably "useless".

The more interesting question is whether the master plan actually causes actions and outcomes or merely predicts them.

Did the master plan
- cause you to go to the doctor, or
- just predict that you would?

If the master plan says the doctor heals you and the doctor does heal you,
then what caused your healing
- The master plan, or
- what the doctor did

The answer to this question may also reveal whether you can choose actions counter to the master plan.

If the master plan causes actions or outcomes,
then you probably can't act against the plan, or
if you can, the plan would counter "unexpected" actions to ensure the planned outcomes eventually occur.

If the master plan merely predicts actions,
then you may be able choose actions against the plan's predictions

1. What did the plan's creator actually know when creating the plan?
- Is the plan's creator a "timeless" deity that can see past, present, and future at the same instant?
If yes, then this deity already sees your "future" actions and their outcomes.
- Or does the plan maker only know everything about the past and present and uses this information to predict the future? In which case, this being doesn't know the future.

2. And does this being take actions to ensure the plan's outcomes?
- If the creator takes actions to implement the plan,
then, even if you have free-will, this creator counters all your actions to ensure the implementation of the plan.
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#64 howard28bullet

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:25 PM

Perhaps the mans destiny is to go to the doctor. And regardless of his destiny being sick then getting well or being sick and dieing, going to the doctor does him no harm. It boils down to making a conscious choice of how he feels his destiny might play out. He obviously believes in destiny, so does he believe that his destiny is to get well or to die or maybe to go to the doctor. Either way living or dieing going to the doctor does not change that destiny, but it can help him in gaining knowledge about what is ailing him and that knowledge can bring him closer to knowing what his destiny is in this particular situation. If the doc says it incurable cancer then he is destine to pass, but if the doc says that he only suffering from the flue then he knows his destine to get well. Going to the doctor will assist him in discovering his destiny in regards to this particular situation and he can then move on with his life by either preparing for death or planning what he is going to do while he recovers.

There are a hundred ways to look at this question and this is the position that I choose. Therefore I hope it sparks further conversations.


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#65 lost cause 4 sale

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 06:11 AM

i believe there is destiny, BUT it is also unpredictable. this means whatever u do is exactly what destiny intended u to do.
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#66 problemchild

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 03:21 AM

Argument A:
Who ever said there weren't variables in the master plan, which require input?

Argument B:
If destiny had a master plan that required you to get well, would you really want to be the reason the master plan corrupts
...and the reason sanity the space-time continum go down the tube, destiny goes through depression, gravity reverses based upon the idea that anything known isn't known for sure, aliens from pluto come get revenge for being officially dwarfed...
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#67 koko

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 03:03 PM

Destiny is what it is. every decission you make conciously or not is all a part of YOUR destany. if you are ill and your destiny is to become healthy, then yes you would go to the doctor, destany plays a silent, but major role in our lives. There will never be a moment that is not controled by our destany and the divine plan for all life. As there will never be a moment when you realize what our destany is, Ever!, because our destiny is never complete.
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#68 prj101894

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 05:40 PM

if there is a master plan, than no matter what you will get better or worse and it will have already been planned out that you will either go to the doctors or not and if you do thats destiny and if u dont thats destiny
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#69 Guest_20080103_*

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 03:38 AM

This is pretty easy, because if whether he goes to the doctor or not go the doctor and whether he lives or dies is all part of his destiny. In other words, his decision to go or not go to the doctor is part of his destiny. So I suggest he still go to the doctors. :rolleyes:
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#70 live4him4eva

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 05:21 PM

But what if his destiny is to go to the doctor's, and therefore get better? Especially if he didn't think of this option.
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