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Liar Paradox (Eubulid or Epimenides Paradox)


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220 replies to this topic

#21 retskcah .eht

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 11:25 AM

If somebody says about himself, that he lies, is it truth or lie?

any.
Becouse:
He can be a lier and tell the truth in that particular sentence. so therefore he told the truth

And if he was not a lier but sad that he is lier then he become a lier , but he was not in the past.so therefor he told a lie.
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#22 jack50n

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 07:09 AM

being a liar does not at all necessarily mean you only lie and never tell the truth, it just means that you lie sometimes, and therefore is able to tell the truth,

in my definition a liar is more of someone who can lie shamelessly if it seems to lead to better consequences than telling truth.

so this cretan was lieing when he said everything i say is true. this is a paradox for people who cannot find themselves to be openminded


SO, if someone says about themself that they lie, it is definitely the truth, it cant be a lie since an honest person cant say that they lie without lieing, making them a liar

if you dont get it, too bad idontfeel like rephrasing.
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#23 Ploper

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 01:18 AM

it's true,
outside of honestants and swindlecants,
people can be lyers without lying ALL the time.
Or,
maybe he's not a pure Cretan, maybe his father was grecian fugitive or something.
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#24 Th0rThe1st

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:30 AM

The point of this and all paradox is that there is not finite answer.

With the statement "I am a liar"

If I were a liar the statement "I am a liar" would be a lie, in other words the statement should read, "I am not a liar". If that were true than I could have never stated that "I am a liar" because that in itself be a lie. The same is true for the Cretian, If all Cretians were liars he would have to lie in that statement. Again making the statement read "All Cretians are not liars". With that being said then again the Cretian lied about not being a liar and telling a lie at the same time.
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#25 xyqmage

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 01:08 AM

This is simple. The two phrases are: "All Cretans are Liars" and "All Cretans are Liars. I tell the truth." The simplest way to think of this is reality. As a fact, no one group of people are liars. Some are. Therefore the men who say all cretans are liars are liars themselves. The truth would be that some cretans are liars including the cretans that said it. Ofcourse when the second man said that he was telling the truth, he was lying at that time also.
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#26 slw27

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 10:57 AM

what is considered to be the truth is a matter of how you perceive things. if a person is brought up believing that a chair is a table his/her brain will always associate the image of a chair with the word table, until told otherwise. if that person goes and tells people that it is a table, then that person is not lying because as far as he/she can see it is a table (this is because a lie is where you intentionally tell someone something that is not true).

if the cretan in the paradox was brought up believing that all cretans are liars, he might resent his culture and no longer perceive himself/herself as cretan. so when he/she tells the greeks that all cretans are liars and all that he/she says is true the cretan is not lying because he/she perceives this as truth.

however, as far as the greeks are concerned he is a cretan so he must be including himself in the statements he made to them which leads to the confusion.
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#27 danzig

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 06:59 AM

A PARADOX IS JUST A STORY,THEIR IS NO LOGIC IN IT.IT'S JUST A STORY TO TRY AND CONFUSE THE MIND.HOW CAN SOMEONE DIE TRYING TO SOLVE A MYSTERY THAT CANNOT BE SOLVED.IF YOU HEAR THIS STORY,YOUR OWN LOGIC WOULD TELL YOU THAT THIS STORY CANNOT POSSIBLY BE TRUE. IT IS JUST A TALE TO AMUSE AND CONFUSE.
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#28 Cerika1984

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 04:22 PM

Someone already hit the nail on the head with the hammer when they said that the point is to not assume that someone is saying something that they haven't really said. The guy said that they are all liars and that is the greatest truth for anyone...
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#29 Cerika1984

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 04:25 PM

The key is that the statements are not totally exclusive. To say that Cretans are liars does is not the same as saying Cretans always lie or that Cretans cannot ever tell the truth. It says that all Cretans have told at least one lie. Moral: never assume you know what the other guy is saying before he explicitly says that - a favorite trick of those in sales and politics.



This is the best explanation on the board! I totally agree...
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#30 laurenbarton

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 01:48 AM

Many are missing the point of a paradox. It cannot be answered.

The intent is to insinuate that all Cretans Lie all the time. Therefore anything the Cretan says with regard to lying or truth saying creates a paradox. If he says he's lying then the paradox is that he's telling the truth, disproving the initial premise. If he says he's telling the truth then the paradox is that he has to lie for you to determine the truth, proving the initial premise but you must already know the initial premise to know that.

In this instance there is no paradox because the initial premise is not exclusive. It says only that Cretan's are liars, not that they lie all the time.

Seems so simple.
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