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# Liar Paradox (Eubulid or Epimenides Paradox)

### #171

Posted 08 July 2009 - 03:23 PM

I hope i made that simple.

In other words this statement is only true if it is a lie and only a lie if it is true.

### #172

Posted 23 September 2009 - 04:12 PM

It's a lie. The Cretan was lying both times he spoke to the Greeks. Both statements combined make one big fallacy... High School Philosophy my dear...

### #173

Posted 02 October 2009 - 06:24 AM

The key here I beleive is that the cretan did not say that all cretan's lie all the time. So lets look at it this way, Do liars sometime tell the truth? Yes. Are they still liar's? Yes. So his first statement can be true, but his latter cannot.

Well... I consider that you just need to use math to find the solution.

(-) x (+) = (-)

Or you can use filosophy.

If I say that all the people in a town are liers.

I live in that town.

Im a lier, so, what I say is a lie.

The solution is that not everyone in the town is a lier.

### #174

Posted 19 October 2009 - 06:11 PM

### #175

Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:21 PM

It doesn't not state that ALL Cretans lie ALL the time, it simply states all Cretans are liars..

I could also state All people are liars & be telling the truth. In my experience, given the correct inspiration, everyone lies at one time or another.

The second statement lends more to confusion, but taken in parts it is simple, again the truth is that all Cretans are liars, the lie is that this person always speaks the truth.

Nothing anywhere says that there can not be the truth & a lie in the same statement, for example. I could say, "The truth is, I always lie." that statement is in fact a lie..

### #176

Posted 30 October 2009 - 04:49 PM

The opposite of "All Cretans always tell lies" is not "All Cretans always tell the truth", it is "Not all Cretans always tell lies."

So by saying it he IS implying that he is telling a lie, so he is therefore saying "Not all Cretans always tell lies.". And there it stops!

A better one (which is truly a paradox) is: "This statement is false".

### #177

Posted 30 October 2009 - 07:07 PM

Xin

**Edited by Xin, 30 October 2009 - 07:15 PM.**

### #178

Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:20 PM

### #179

Posted 02 November 2009 - 02:22 AM

Nice answer Xin The question is then, why do you think that you are 'Able' to define: there is only one truth, and that is absolute zero-which in itself is indefinable by us. In this case (as you tell us yourself) you contradicted yourself by defining what can't be defined. Defining the set in which cannot be a part of it self, must be a part of the set which is not a part of it self - again a paradox. You just have to change the way you ask the question about this - change the interpretation and use of the symbols you use in the paradox-formula. It's to complicated to give a proper answer right now, but Bertrand Russell comes with a great analyses about this in his essay from 1908 'Mathematical Logic as based on the theory of Types', if you're interested

Haha thanks. Ill take a look at the essay, it just seems that words are sometimes not enough to describe "it". We do our best, no?

Xin

### #180

Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:29 PM

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