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#11 grey cells

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 08:51 AM

Re-phrase for clarity:

House A owns a cockerel. If it were to leap over the fence and lay eggs in House B's garden, who would keep the eggs?


Make any more sense?

Thanks StAnArchic . But still the question cannot be completely removed. So you cannot satisfy Noct (Or) Itachi-san.
The puzzle is correct . So no need to re-phrase it. :)

Edited by grey cells, 29 March 2008 - 08:51 AM.

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#12 itachi-san

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:12 AM

Sorry . But I do not agree . Before coming to the question one has to look at the logic.If the logic fails , then there is no question of a question being raised. In this OP the question is merely a distraction and distractions are part and parcel of any puzzle. :mellow:



What do you mean by this?

Also, please elaborate on how 'it leaps over the fence and lays its eggs' does not confirm that the cockerel is laying eggs? I'm still going with some genetic mutation.
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#13 grey cells

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:19 AM

What do you mean by this?

Also, please elaborate on how 'it leaps over the fence and lays its eggs' does not confirm that the cockerel is laying eggs? I'm still going with some genetic mutation.


What I mean is that a cockerel is not capable of laying eggs unless as you mentioned it was the product of science and it would be only a vague assumption.
For the first part , I did not say that the statement 'it leaps over the fence and lays its eggs' is the confirmation that cockerel does not lay eggs.

OK .genetic mutation is possible but then it would be an assumption and it could be the next possible answer. But this one is an oldie , and implies the straightforward logic that a cockerel is a male and hence cannot lay eggs. :)

Edited by grey cells, 29 March 2008 - 09:21 AM.

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#14 itachi-san

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:24 AM

What I mean is that a cockerel is not capable of laying eggs unless as you mentioned it was the product of science and it would be only a vague assumption.
For the first part , I did not say that the statement 'it leaps over the fence and lays its eggs' is the confirmation that cockerel does not lay eggs.

OK .genetic mutation is possible but then it would be an assumption and it could be the next possible answer. But this one is an oldie , and implies the straightforward logic that a cockerel is a male and hence cannot lay eggs. :)



Point taken and I agree. I would say that the riddle would benefit from making this an 'if statement': If the cockerel leaps over the fence blah blah blah.

Oh, StAnArchic already posted that, my bad.

Edited by itachi-san, 29 March 2008 - 09:26 AM.

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#15 Noct

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:26 AM

But if we are going to have to analyze the correctness of the OP, then so many puzzles already posted would fall apart. Should we deny any post because of a typo? In my opinion, I think that the puzzle is more about the question, then picking apart the wording or factuality.

"A rabbi, a priest, and a minister walk into a bar." Are you going to make me show proof that they actually did walk into a bar? No, because it's not part of the question.

What if I said I hav two coins that make $.30, one is not a nickel. Would you say this riddle is unsolvable because "hav" isn't a word? My opinion is that we can't analyze truthfulness in these riddles, just try to take what's given as truth, and use it to answer the question presented.

Edited by Noct, 29 March 2008 - 09:26 AM.

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#16 grey cells

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:30 AM

What if I said I hav two coins that make $.30, one is not a nickel. Would you say this riddle is unsolvable because "hav" isn't a word? My opinion is that we can't analyze truthfulness in these riddles, just try to take what's given as truth, and use it to answer the question presented.

In some puzzles your argument holds true. But in this one , the fact that a cockerel cannot lay eggs is already established. So we need not analyze the truth. :)
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#17 itachi-san

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:39 AM

In some puzzles your argument holds true. But in this one , the fact that a cockerel cannot lay eggs is already established. So we need not analyze the truth. :)



I think this tangent about analyzing the truth has raised the real problem here. If it's inherent in the question that the cockerel laid eggs, which it is, is this an established truth or not?


Also, about Noct's post concerning typos, etc.. I totally agree, and would never hold a typo against someone unless the question was totally illegible or didn't make sense because of whatever typo, mis wording, etc.. to which we all should simply ask for a re-phrasing or explanation. But, looking deep into the heart of riddles is what makes these long discussions fun. It can be silly at times, but it can also unearth totally new and reasonable answers or help to create new riddles that branch off of the discussion.
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#18 grey cells

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:45 AM

I think this tangent about analyzing the truth has raised the real problem here. If it's inherent in the question that the cockerel laid eggs, which it is, is this an established truth or not?


Also, about Noct's post concerning typos, etc.. I totally agree, and would never hold a typo against someone unless the question was totally illegible or didn't make sense because of whatever typo, mis wording, etc.. to which we all should simply ask for a re-phrasing or explanation. But, looking deep into the heart of riddles is what makes these long discussions fun. It can be silly at times, but it can also unearth totally new and reasonable answers or help to create new riddles that branch off of the discussion.

Yeah . Totally agreed about the discussions being fun. But in this question the OP , according to me , did not contain any serious errors. And tha fact(in OP) that the cockerel laid eggs is really the root cause for the argument. :rolleyes:
But I will stick with the original answer , i.e. , the oldie's answer. :)
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#19 Noct

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:51 AM

Yeah . Totally agreed about the discussions being fun. But in this question the OP , according to me , did not contain any serious errors. And tha fact(in OP) that the cockerel laid eggs is really the root cause for the argument. :rolleyes:
But I will stick with the original answer , i.e. , the oldie's answer. :)

Yea I completely understand what you're saying. But still to me seems like cheating. To me it's like asking "how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" And the answer be woodchucks can't chuck wood. But this is just my opinion and I might be standing alone here.
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#20 grey cells

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:55 AM

Yea I completely understand what you're saying. But still to me seems like cheating. To me it's like asking "how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" And the answer be woodchucks can't chuck wood. But this is just my opinion and I might be standing alone here.

Yes . It is a matter of one's own opinion.Nobody can argue that point. :lol:
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