24 replies to this topic

[Yoruichi-san]

It does say in the OP that "the gods respond only to yes-no questions"...(paragraph 2, 4th sentence)

 

Spoiler for Sorry, clarification to question 3

I meant to ask, what happens if you ask the lying god, "Is your answer to this question a lie?"

 

True would answer "no" definitely, but it's a paradox for Lie.

 

Spoiler for First two questions

Ask two of them, "will the random god answer whatever means 'yes' in his language to the next question?", only Random can answer, so this tells you who Random is.

 

Use last question as above if acceptable.

[ThunderCloud]

It does say in the OP that "the gods respond only to yes-no questions"...(paragraph 2, 4th sentence)

 

Spoiler for Sorry, clarification to question 3

I meant to ask, what happens if you ask the lying god, "Is your answer to this question a lie?"

 

True would answer "no" definitely, but it's a paradox for Lie.

 

Spoiler for First two questions

Ask two of them, "will the random god answer whatever means 'yes' in his language to the next question?", only Random can answer, so this tells you who Random is.

 

Use last question as above if acceptable.

Spoiler for Definitely worth honorable mention!

This is a different solution than the one I had in mind, and I like it. I had not considered exploiting that aspect of the lying god...

Having said that, I know at least one solution that does not rely on this technique. So, to make life difficult: suppose that the lying god, when thusly cornered, answers at random and considers either response to be a "lie". Can you still identify the gods?

[ThunderCloud]

ThunderCloud, you don't specifically limit our questions to be of the Yes/No variety, but it seems implied?

 

If I understand your question correctly: the gods of Truth and Lies will not respond to questions for which an appropriate answer is neither "Yes" nor "No." The "god of Randomness" will answer any question with a "Yes" or "No" response.

[Yoruichi-san]

Lol, well as an engineer, I do try to be as lazy *cough* efficient as possible...

 

Spoiler for The more tedious solution

Denoting the gods as A,B, and C for simplicity...

 

1st question:  Ask A, "Would B answer yes (or 'whatever in his language means yes' if you need to be that specific) to the question 'Is C the random god?'"

 

If he can't answer, then B is the random god.  In this case, there are a couple ways you could go.  The simplest IMO is probably to ask A, like, "Would you answer yes if I asked you 'Is the sky blue'?" or something  like that that tells you which of his answers means yes (or no), and then for the last question ask "Is the sky blue" to determine which of A and C is the liar and truthteller.

 

If A did answer the first question, then either A or C is the random god, and B is definitely not the random god.  In this case, take note of what he just said, and move on to B.  Ask B, "Would C answer yes (or 'whatever in his language means yes') to the question 'Did A just say [insert whatever A just said]'?"  (or 'Is the sky blue' or any question that is true I suppose...)

 

If B can't answer question 2, then C is the random god, and whatever A answered previously means 'no' in A's language.  So move back to A and ask him 'Is the sky blue' or some such to determine which of A and B is the liar and the truthteller.

 

If B did answer question 2, A is the random god and whatever B just answered means 'no'.  So then ask him 'Is the sky blue' to determine which of B and C is the liar and the truthteller.

 

(Of course, if you want to be technical you can always replace 'Is the sky blue' with a more undisputable mathematical question, like "does 1+1=2?" or logical question, like "Does yes mean yes?", but I just like to use it in these problems  )

Edited by Yoruichi-san, 19 February 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Thalia]

"Random"=R=Random answerer

T=Truth teller

L=Liar

Spoiler for Attempt #2

1. To #1: If I ask 2 if he is random, what will he say?
-Answers- 2 is not random- go to question 4
-No answer- 2 is random- go to question 2

2. To #1: If I ask 3 if 2+2=4, what will he say?
-Answer will be “no”- go to question 3

3. To #1: Does 2+2=4?
-Answers same as question 2- 1L, 2R, 3T
-Answers different from question 2- 1T, 2R, 3L

4. To #2: If I ask 3 if he is random, what will he say?
-Answers- 1 is random- go to question 5
-No answer- 3 is random- go to question 6

5. To #2: Does 2+2=4?
-Answers same as question 5- 1R, 2T, 3L
-Answers different from question 5- 1R, 2L, 3T

To #2: Does 2+2=4?
-Answers same as question 1- 1L, 2T, 3R
-Answers different from question 1- 1T, 2L, 3R

Edited by Thalia, 19 February 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[phaze]

Spoiler for Attempt #2

1. To #1: If I ask 2 if he is random, what will he say?
-Answers- 2 is not random- go to question 4

Spoiler for May contains hints

You may want to take note of what the answer is as it does not cost you anything but allows you to ask questions such as "Does Blarg mean yes?"

[ThunderCloud]

"Random"=R=Random answerer

T=Truth teller

L=Liar

Spoiler for Attempt #2

1. To #1: If I ask 2 if he is random, what will he say?
-Answers- 2 is not random- go to question 4
-No answer- 2 is random- go to question 2

2. To #1: If I ask 3 if 2+2=4, what will he say?
-Answer will be “no”- go to question 3

3. To #1: Does 2+2=4?
-Answers same as question 2- 1L, 2R, 3T
-Answers different from question 2- 1T, 2R, 3L

4. To #2: If I ask 3 if he is random, what will he say?
-Answers- 1 is random- go to question 5
-No answer- 3 is random- go to question 6

5. To #2: Does 2+2=4?
-Answers same as question 5- 1R, 2T, 3L
-Answers different from question 5- 1R, 2L, 3T

To #2: Does 2+2=4?
-Answers same as question 1- 1L, 2T, 3R
-Answers different from question 1- 1T, 2L, 3R

 

Spoiler for Comments

The algorithm is self-referential in question 5 (probably a typo)...

[ThunderCloud]

Lol, well as an engineer, I do try to be as lazy *cough* efficient as possible...

 

Spoiler for The more tedious solution

Denoting the gods as A,B, and C for simplicity...

 

1st question:  Ask A, "Would B answer yes (or 'whatever in his language means yes' if you need to be that specific) to the question 'Is C the random god?'"

 

If he can't answer, then B is the random god.  In this case, there are a couple ways you could go.  The simplest IMO is probably to ask A, like, "Would you answer yes if I asked you 'Is the sky blue'?" or something  like that that tells you which of his answers means yes (or no), and then for the last question ask "Is the sky blue" to determine which of A and C is the liar and truthteller.

 

If A did answer the first question, then either A or C is the random god, and B is definitely not the random god.  In this case, take note of what he just said, and move on to B.  Ask B, "Would C answer yes (or 'whatever in his language means yes') to the question 'Did A just say [insert whatever A just said]'?"  (or 'Is the sky blue' or any question that is true I suppose... )

 

If B can't answer question 2, then C is the random god, and whatever A answered previously means 'no' in A's language.  So move back to A and ask him 'Is the sky blue' or some such to determine which of A and B is the liar and the truthteller.

 

If B did answer question 2, A is the random god and whatever B just answered means 'no'.  So then ask him 'Is the sky blue' to determine which of B and C is the liar and the truthteller.

 

(Of course, if you want to be technical you can always replace 'Is the sky blue' with a more undisputable mathematical question, like "does 1+1=2?" or logical question, like "Does yes mean yes?", but I just like to use it in these problems  )

Well done. My answer was very similar to this.

Spoiler for Differences

The only real difference was my third question in the case where B is not random. After determining which of (A, C) is random using question #2, I then ask the non-random god whose answer I have heard (either A or B) "If I were to ask you whether you always told the truth, would you say (insert word that this god has previously uttered)?" If he replies with the same word again, then he is the god of Truth; else he is the god of Lies.

 

Although it is possible to decipher at least one god's language during the course of the three questions (as you demonstrated), it is actually not necessary... which leaves me with the feeling that the problem can be made still harder, somehow....

[Yoruichi-san]

Yeah deciphering is not necessary, but it makes it mentally easier for me, at least, lol, to keep track of, and somehow I feel more accomplished for getting an extra piece of information ;P.

 

Check out the puzzle I linked...the setup there (where True and Lie can also answer any yes-no question...they are omniscient apparently about Random's answers) disallows you to know which word stands for which, since there were only two possible answers.  In these puzzles 8 possible arrangements of True/Lie/Random, so 2^3=8 will resolve which arrangement with no information to spare.  This puzzle there are three potential answers: a word, a word that is different than the previous word, and lack of an answer, so there is more possible information gained.

 

Nice puzzle tho, it was fun, thanks  .

Edited by Yoruichi-san, 19 February 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[ThunderCloud]

Yeah deciphering is not necessary, but it makes it mentally easier for me, at least, lol, to keep track of, and somehow I feel more accomplished for getting an extra piece of information ;P.

 

Check out the puzzle I linked...the setup there (where True and Lie can also answer any yes-no question...they are omniscient apparently about Random's answers) disallows you to know which word stands for which, since there were only two possible answers.  In these puzzles 8 possible arrangements of True/Lie/Random, so 2^3=8 will resolve which arrangement with no information to spare.  This puzzle there are three potential answers: a word, a word that is different than the previous word, and lack of an answer, so there is more possible information gained.

 

Nice puzzle tho, it was fun, thanks  .

I will take a look at it, thanks. Glad you enjoyed the problem. Btw, I only count 6 possible arrangements for True/Lie/Random (3!) ...?