60 replies to this topic

[bonanova]

Thinking of a puzzle that could be titled the Purloined Sirloin. Probably won't find one.

[plainglazed]

Spoiler for some more musings

perhaps working backwards i.e. a process of elimination might be fruitful.  If Victor wanted to implicate one of the partners or even another by carving into the steak, it seems he would pick a symbol unique to the culprit.  A "V" for Vittaro could be mistaken as meant for Violet or even himself.  Cannot tie the delta or seven to either of the Vs tho. 
 
Another thought but not very conclusive.  Victor carves a /_\ or 7 or \/.  Assuming typical orientation of each symbol, the triangle is opposite that of the "V" and seven.  Perhaps the orientation of the steak suggests one or the other two, kinda like the orientation of the knife suggested someone else had used it.
 
And finally and i suppose obviously, since it appears Victor attempted to identify the killer, he realized who that was. And presumably he then also knew he was poisoned and how.  Perhaps by tasting something from the spoon Vittaro took from the kitchen.

 

Unfortunately none of the above address B-kun's last statement "She liked to cook too" so probably not of much use.  Think they're folks out there still on the case Y-san.  Maybe this recent flurry of posts will continue to revive this thread.

        

[dms172]

Spoiler for chesire cat

He's the cat from Alice in wonderland, so the line she's likes to cook too.. might be referring to Alice. Not sure if that helps at all, but its something to think about

[CaptainEd]

Spoiler for already spoiled idea

I like dms172's point: what was the murder weapon? If he died by ingestion of poison, how did someone get him to ingest it? By force? Might have been signs of struggle. By tossing food into the pot or the bowl of wilted greens? Doubtful, he doesn't let anyone near him when he's cooking, and he may not have finished his mise en place.

I question the notion that the poison was in the pot, as Y-san claims to have told us all the important details. While the contents of the bowl were "wilted greens", the contents of the pot were unmentioned.

I still like the idea that someone whom he trusted set poisoned food elsewhere in the room as an offering, and then came back in after he was dead and removed it. Upon realizing that he'd been poisoned, Victor knew who had done it.

Could it have been Violet? Our knowledge of what the police found about who'd been in the room comes from Violet, who might have failed to mention to B-kun that she, too, had been in the kitchen.

Is the carved letter really the dying message from the victim? Is the bowl of wilted greens the message instead? (I can't read it any better than the sirloined letter...)

Edited by CaptainEd, 02 January 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Molly Mae]

Spoiler for Could it be...

...that the poison was on the cutting board?

 

I don't know how it would be ingested from there, but I rarely cook without a cutting board.

[flamebirde]

Spoiler for doubtful, but...

maybe the knife was poisoned and he cut himself?

[Molly Mae]

Spoiler for doubtful, but...

maybe the knife was poisoned and he cut himself?

Spoiler for Doubtful

That would be considered injected, not ingested.  Even if we can't entirely believe what the OP says in the narrative, it more or less implies that the pots, pans, and utensils couldn't be predicted and not all of them were poisoned.

 

If an object were poisoned, it would be something that a good cook would have only 1 of (or very few) and would be used in many (if not all) dishes.  Salt comes to mind.  The cutting board was a reach for me, but I personally only have two of them (things to be cooked and things not going to be cooked) and use at least one whenever I cook something.

 

Edit: perhaps there was a poison in the marble counters.  They're porous enough to hold a poison...

Edited by Molly Mae, 02 January 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[CaptainEd]

Challenges:

* Y-san says poison was ingested, so no accidental seppuku

* Violet says nobody could get near Victor or his mise en place, so no poisoning his food or equipment.

* B-kun the Infallible says that any of the partners could be implicated by the A, (and so could Violet, although more ambiguously), so therefore we can't tell who did it from the letter

* B-kun says that the murderer probably removed the poisoned evidence.

* Most of us are suspicious of Violet's manner when describing the murder scene, but Y-san rejects that kind of reasoning because it's really about the trickiness of the culprit.

 

Other data:

* Violet says the police learned that the three partners each had visited the kitchen, coming out with specific items. Perhaps we can actually believe her, and believe that she did NOT enter the kitchen until she found the body.

 

Spoiler for Feeble argument

If the murderer left some poisoned food for Victor and then returned after Victor's death, it's much easier to imagine the food having been administered on a plate than a spoon or towel. Thus it's easier to imagine Deltaskos as the murderer. However, "easier to imagine" is hardly sufficient for B-kun to say he knows who murdered Victor. So I'm still clueless (or at least unable to derive enough from the clues we've got.

Edited by CaptainEd, 02 January 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[CaptainEd]

Spoiler for trying again

Just hope B-kun doesn't kiss Violet!

B-kun is already assuming any of the partners would have to have:
1) entered the kitchen, administered the poison, and left
2) re-entered the kitchen later, observed and edited the carved letter, removed the poison, and left.
In any case, no poison will be found in the kitchen.

 

If Violet is the killer, there are two scenarios:
A) First scenario, followed by
3) re-entered the kitchen later still and "discovered the body",

Or
B) 1) followed by

2) re-entered the kitchen later, observed and edited the carved letter and "discovered the body"

If this is true, the poison is still in the kitchen.

 

UNLESS in 1) she kissed her daddy (having put on poison lipstick to which she has the antidote or a protective device), left and removed the lipstick.

 

In all of these scenarios but the last, the killer, upon seeing the carved letter, could have simply removed the sirloin along with the poison.

Only in the last scenario, when Violet returns only once, is it necessary to doctor the sirloin before "discovering the body".

[plainglazed]

Spoiler for glomming onto the good Captain's idea

wilted greens and grey meat - both caused by oxidation?  maybe there's a connection with heptan.  seems in keeping with the chemistry of "That Woman" as well.