21 replies to this topic

[curr3nt]

What happens then if the poisoner steals the best poison that the Witch can make to poison the Tyrant? Since the stronger poisons can kill in minutes a ready supply would have to be available and therefore subject to possible theft.

What happens when a faux potion is made to simulate the effects of the poison in order to make the target take the actual poison.

Poor, poor Tyrant is in for a nasty end regardless.

[swordfish]

As the Witch's lawyer, I would point out that the outcome of the competition was to discover the best PERSON, not the best POISON.
Otherwise, wouldn't the Cruel Tyrant be really really upset to find that both competitors had brought Water to the competition?

In fact, this result also yields the best POISON, as the Witch may know she can do better than the Wizard, but does she have a numerical measure? Would she make her own antidote anything less than her very strongest poison? The C. T. should be glad to see what the Witch uses when she wants to save her own hide.

However, as a humble Denizen, I'm eager to solve the problem you had in mind. Does your comment imply that my solution is not a winner? If so, can a person detect that they're poisoned soon enough that a dose of antidote can protect them?

We have been using water to keep things simple but the witch and wizard would actually use something that looked like poison but are actually placebos (the King doesnt know what the real poison should taste like anyway) so the king would not know this unless he tests them, the placebos, himself.

What the king would see was the wizard dying and the witch surviving; suddenly the witch goes all whoozy and whips out another bottle and saves herself from dying. Right away CT knows something is amiss. He would then figure out that the two had been more concerned for their own lives than his safety; how he would act on this information is up to him.

bottom line is we are looking for a solution that keeps him in the dark.

P.S. it all depends on the strength of the poison currently active, a weak poison gives you more time to save yourself

Edited by swordfish, 18 October 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[swordfish]

What happens then if the poisoner steals the best poison that the Witch can make to poison the Tyrant? Since the stronger poisons can kill in minutes a ready supply would have to be available and therefore subject to possible theft.

What happens when a faux potion is made to simulate the effects of the poison in order to make the target take the actual poison.

Poor, poor Tyrant is in for a nasty end regardless.

this my friend is a riddle for another day

[Yoruichi-san]

Let's say we have poisons A, B, and C with strength A<B<C. So if someone takes A then B then C they will die, correct? What happens if they take B then A then C? Does C antidote both? Also, does the Witch know what the highest strength of poison the wizard can make is?

Spoiler for If so...

Witch takes a poison that is stronger than the Wizard's strongest poison but not her strongest poison before, then brings strongest poison to bout.

[Panther]

Spoiler for I wanted to post an answer without reading any spoilers so -

Wizard's plan - He drinks a very weak poison beforehand, then produces water (or another neutral substance) as his 'poison'. He then drinks the witch's poison, counteracting the one he took earlier, while the witch drinks his water. Then he drinks his own water, while the witch drinks her own poison, which kills her. Witch's counter-plan - She guesses the wizard's plan and makes her own 'poison' water too. They both drink water twice, but the poison that the wizard consumed beforehand kills him (assuming the wizards is not clever enough to guess that the witch will have a counter)

I'm now gonna read the other replies and probably realise that i've made some great mistake

[CaptainEd]

Spoiler for I realize the Cruel Tyrant Kings aren't often open to negotiation, but...

What if the Witch proposes a modified competition: A third (clean) goblet is to be provided by the CTK. Wizard and Witch each put some of their brew into the mixed goblet. Then each drinks the mixture, followed by their own brew. If so, Witch brings her best shot, doesn't matter what Wizard brings.

I enjoy Y-san's question about B,A,C and agree with her answer. But I doubt that the Witch has a titration measure of the Wizard's potion, so I see risk in Y's proposal.

Edited by CaptainEd, 18 October 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Panther]

Spoiler for I realize the Cruel Tyrant Kings aren't often open to negotiation, but...

What if the Witch proposes a modified competition: A third (clean) goblet is to be provided by the CTK. Wizard and Witch each put some of their brew into the mixed goblet. Then each drinks the mixture, followed by their own brew. If so, Witch brings her best shot, doesn't matter what Wizard brings.

I enjoy Y-san's question about B,A,C and agree with her answer. But I doubt that the Witch has a titration measure of the Wizard's potion, so I see risk in Y's proposal.

Spoiler for But...

What if the poisons simply counteracted each other in the cup?

[CaptainEd]

As the Prof said (but with more accurate phonetics), "inconshievable"!

Edited by CaptainEd, 18 October 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[swordfish]

whoops! 4got to check-up on this, been busy..... anyway here now!

Let's say we have poisons A, B, and C with strength A<B<C. So if someone takes A then B then C they will die, correct? What happens if they take B then A then C? Does C antidote both? Also, does the Witch know what the highest strength of poison the wizard can make is?

Spoiler for If so...

Witch takes a poison that is stronger than the Wizard's strongest poison but not her strongest poison before, then brings strongest poison to bout.

Theres a problem with this solution:

Spoiler for problem

If wizard cheats he brings a placebo and drinks a poison weaker than the witch's(lets call this poison A).
Witch the strong poison witch drinks beforehand is poison B and witch's strongest poison is C.
Test:
exchange 1:
wiz drinks poison C = counters poison A = wizard will not die
witch drinks placebo = nothing = witch is still poisoned with poison B
exchange 2:
wiz drinks placebo = nothing = he lives
witch drinks poison C = counters poison B = witch is no longer poisoned and lives

PROBLEM: Wizard should die whether he cheats or not.

About CaptainEd's proposed modified competition; we can't/shouldn't alter the test in any way, its part of the brainteaser.

About the strength of the wizard's poison:
All i can say, because it's all I know is:
Wizard's strongest poison will always be weaker than witch's strongest poison.
Wizard's weakest poison will always be stronger than witch's weakest poison.
By how much? we don't really know exactly but the difference should be big.

Yoruichi's answer is close, it just need to go a different direction.

[phaze]

Spoiler for The benefits of being better at a crystal ball than potions...

In order to make sure that the wizard does not cheat the which drinks a weaker poison than that of the wizards, but not her weakest which she presents. now if the wizard presents his weakest it will still be stronger than the one that she has already imbibed thus counter-acting it. If he presents water then he is already poisoned to a greater degree than her and her weakest potion will not change that.

The wizard however after covertly seeing the witch's preparations, poisons himself with his weakest of potions, while presenting the strongest of potions.