68 replies to this topic

[mmiguel]

Assuming if you ask a god a question they can't answer, they'll say nothing or something completely different that means, like, 'error'...

Spoiler for

Ask two of them "If I ask you next 'Is the sky blue', will you answer da or ja?"

If one can't answer, he is the random answerer, otherwise both will answer which ever is yes and the third is the random.

Third question, ask one that answered yes to the first question, "Is the sky blue?" to discern if liar or truth teller.

A question that cannot be answered --- sounds like a paradox.
Likely not to get much useful info out of a paradox.

Random can always answer, since he doesn't even need to listen to your question, he can ignore you, flip a coin or roll a die and give you whatever answer he chooses.

[mmiguel]

How omniscient are the 3 Gods?

By this I mean
Can the three identify each other?
and
Can the truth and lying God reliably predict what the random God is going to say if asked?

Edit: can they reliably predict what the random God will say in future?
Is the random God capable of changing his mind one he has decided to go down the path of truth or the path of lies? i.e is is possible to ask him the same question twice and get different answers

They are omniscient.
They each know which God is which.
Random can provide different answers to the same question.

I guess I don't see any harm in them knowing what Random will say if for example you were to use question 1 to ask what Random would say question 2 or on question 3.

Edited by mmiguel, 18 September 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[mmiguel]

Can we assume that they know what questions I am about to ask before I ask them?

Hmm....

That could make things complicated because we can get into a circular: "but he knows that I know that he knows that I know that ....", which I would prefer to avoid.

The correct answer allows you to identify which Gods are which regardless of what they think you are thinking.

Edited by mmiguel, 18 September 2012 - 06:09 AM.

[phaze]

Spoiler for Partial Answer

I can determine which one the lier is by asking "What answer will the Random God give when answering this question?" Lier is the one who answers differently (don't need to know what "da" or "ya" means)

[mmiguel]

Three gods A , B , and C are called, in some order, True, False, and Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A , B , and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are “da” and “ja”, in some order. You do not know which word means which.

There are 3 smaller, easier puzzles that may serve as hints to building up the answer to this one.

I will post the first one below. Those with pride, feel free to not look.

Spoiler for Hint Puzzle1

Noting their locations, I place two aces and a jack face down on a table, in a row; you do not see which card is placed where. Your problem is to point to one of the three cards and then ask me a single yes-no question, from the answer to which you can, with certainty, identify one of the three cards as an ace. If you have pointed to one of the aces, I will answer your question truthfully. However, if you have pointed to the jack, I will answer your question yes or no, completely at random.

Edited by mmiguel, 18 September 2012 - 06:16 AM.

[mmiguel]

Spoiler for Partial Answer

I can determine which one the lier is by asking "What answer will the Random God give when answering this question?" Lier is the one who answers differently (don't need to know what "da" or "ya" means)

Spoiler for

i believe your question as it is, is not answerable in general, since the random god can change his answer if you ask him multiple times (a truthful or lying god, would need to know *which* occurrence of you asking the random god you are talking about in order to give a meaningful answer.

i think there is no way to guarantee that the random god will answer differently from the liar, hence you cannot say that the liar will provide a different answer, because the random god can answer however he pleases in his own unfathomable way.

Edited by mmiguel, 18 September 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[kbrdsk]

What happens when you ask the truth teller or the liar a question they can't answer?

[superprismatic]

Spoiler for Hint Puzzle #1

If I happen to point to the jack, then your response will convey no information to me since that response depends only on a process (the random yes-no generator) which is completely hidden from me. This is, therefore, a case where I could not learn anything about where an ace may be. I conclude, then, that any answer to this puzzle must depend on trick wording or some such chicanery.

[Yoruichi-san]

Okay, let me get this straight. We're assuming:

1) Random means the god will randomly answer YES or NO regardless of the question, not will randomly answer truthfully or not.
2) The gods all know what random's YES/NO pattern will be.

Spoiler for In that case...

Ask two of them: "If I ask the random god a random number of questions, then ask him 'Is the sky blue', will he answer the ja/da equivalent of YES?

This will tell you who the random god is since only the random god will be able to answer. Ask the one (or one of them if both couldn't answer): "Does da mean YES?" If he answers da, it's the truthteller, if he answers ja, he's the liar.

This is not a paradox, it is a strategy that utilizes the fact that random is random .

[TheChad08]

Okay, let me get this straight. We're assuming:

1) Random means the god will randomly answer YES or NO regardless of the question, not will randomly answer truthfully or not.
2) The gods all know what random's YES/NO pattern will be.

Spoiler for In that case...

Ask two of them: "If I ask the random god a random number of questions, then ask him 'Is the sky blue', will he answer the ja/da equivalent of YES?

This will tell you who the random god is since only the random god will be able to answer. Ask the one (or one of them if both couldn't answer): "Does da mean YES?" If he answers da, it's the truthteller, if he answers ja, he's the liar.

This is not a paradox, it is a strategy that utilizes the fact that random is random .

But we claimed that the other God's know his answer, so therefore with that question you could get the two you ask saying yes , or the two you ask saying no, or different answers for each.