13 replies to this topic

[Yoruichi-san]

Spoiler for Nah..

Not what I meant. I'm not interested in various countries interpretations of what a pint is either. But 1 pint doesn't equal 1 pound no matter where in the world you are. Unless 1.04etc is now within acceptable tolerance for "1". In which case, Pi = 3

I was going to let the whole thing go with just a facetious comment or two (cuz you know everything on wikipedia is 100% accurate @_@)...but now you've really poked the chemical engineering dragon

Spoiler for Science and math

In theory, a fluid ounce is suppose to be defined as the volume of one ounce (weight) of water. So therefore, by definition, 1 pint = 1 pound = 16 ounces.

However, the thing about the volume of water, as is the volume of nearly all fluids, is that it is dependent on temperature and pressure, that is, 1 ounce by weight of water will have a different volume in, like, Denver, than in Florida, and in summer than in winter. So when they standardized the volume of a pint, they were measuring the volume of 16 ounces of water under a specific set of conditions, and in those conditions, 1 pint = 1 pound. Under different conditions, 1 pint can equal a decent range of weights and vice versa.

Without going into their sources, I don't know what conditions they measured the volume under to get the 1.04 they cited, but I and all the chemical engineers of the world guarantee you, under different conditions it will measure as 1.06, 1.02, 1.00, 0.98, etc. Basically, somewhere, under the exact right conditions, 1 US pint= 1.0000 pounds, but most places it will be off. But that is not the fault of the definition, i.e. of math, that is just a result of the practical need to standardize the volume they define as 1 US pint, and the fact that the pressure and temperature of areas in the world and the US is not constant.

Edit: Now I may just have to go unleash my scientifically fueled flames on wikipedia. I'm sure they'll be grateful XP.

Edited by Yoruichi-san, 30 May 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[Yoruichi-san]

I was going to let the whole thing go with just a facetious comment or two (cuz you know everything on wikipedia is 100% accurate @_@)...but now you've really poked the chemical engineering dragon

Spoiler for Science and math

In theory, a fluid ounce is suppose to be defined as the volume of one ounce (weight) of water. So therefore, by definition, 1 pint = 1 pound = 16 ounces.

However, the thing about the volume of water, as is the volume of nearly all fluids (well, of all fluids and just about everything that contains molecules, but for most solids, and some semi-solid fluids, the change is negligible from a macroscopic stand point) , is that it is dependent on temperature and pressure, that is, 1 ounce by weight of water will have a different volume in, like, Denver, than in Florida, and in summer than in winter. So when they standardized the volume of a pint, they were measuring the volume of 16 ounces of water under a specific set of conditions, and in those conditions, 1 US pint = 1 pound. Under different conditions, 1 US pint can equal a decent range of weights and vice versa.

Without going into their sources, I don't know what conditions they measured the volume under to get the 1.04 they cited, but I and all the chemical engineers of the world guarantee you, under different conditions it will measure as 1.06, 1.02, 1.00, 0.98, etc. Basically, somewhere, under the exact right conditions, 1 US pint= 1.0000 pounds, but most places it will be off. But that is not the fault of the definition, i.e. of math, that is just a result of the practical need to standardize the volume they define as 1 US pint, and the fact that the pressure and temperature of areas in the world and the US is not constant.

Edit: Now I may just have to go unleash my scientifically fueled flames on wikipedia. I'm sure they'll be grateful XP.

Adding a few clarifications. Science is a rigorous mistress.

[bonanova]

And under any conditions of T and p, "a pint's a pound the world around"
is a saying that's spelled and spoken the same throughout the English-speaking
world. A case of artistic expression being more invariant than science.

Edit:
To admit the English-language usage restriction of an ostensibly global shibboleth.

Comment:
Even though it's imperfect science, its wide usage well qualifies it as a puzzle clue.

Edited by bonanova, 31 May 2012 - 05:16 PM.
Admission and comment

[fabpig]

Spoiler for Hello, Only me...

OK.The problem here is that 16 US fl.oz weighs > 16 oz,due to:

"In 1824, the British abandoned both the Ale and the Wine gallons in favour of the Imperial gallon, based on the volume of 10 pounds of water (which works out at 277.41945 cu in).

America, by this time, had already standardised on the Wine Gallon of 231 cubic inches (strictly speaking, this was defined as the volume of a cylinder 6 inches long and 7 inches in diameter, or 230.9070 cubic inches)."

Gallons were divided into 8 pints
In US, 1 pint = 16 fl.oz...... 128 fl.oz/gallon
In UK, 1 pint = 20 fl.oz...... 160 fl.oz/gallon

As stated, 1 UK gallon weighs 10 lb

but

1 US gallon weighs 8.33 lbs.....(not the expected 8.0)

1 UK fl.oz = 1.73387195625 cu.in
1 US fl.oz = 1.8039609375 cu.in
1 ounce, fluid or liquid (U.S.) = 1.041 British fluid ounces

http://mathforum.org...view/52591.html
http://www.infopleas...a/A0001661.html
http://dictionary.re...de/weights.html
and an unusual source.....! http://www.bestfish.com/convert.html
There are many more.
As for the the saying. Yes I can accept there is artistic/poetic license at work, but it's not a saying that is used "all the world around" (for obvious reasons). Perhaps it's been corrupted over the years and the word "New" dropped...